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Corporations aren't democracies, closer to tyrannies (Chomsky). You refuse work, look for new one... Waiting for his boss to get 400 months, and 10x until CEO

Corporations aren't democracies, closer to tyrannies (Chomsky). You refuse work, look for new one... Waiting for his boss to get 400 months, and 10x until CEO level. They killed people ffs.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
>They killed people ffs You say that as though they shot them or discussed the possible body count in a meeting. Sure, people died as a far downstream result of a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did. The effect is far enough downstream that it's not really relevant. The alternative to VW breaking the law was not a pollution free world. People die as a result of things that are technically preventable all the time but society does not have the resources to allocate to preventing every "preventable" death or disease. We as a society don't judge people by every downstream effect of their actions. The lithium mine required to supply some of the materials for the computer or phone you typed that poorly thought out comment on probably isn't doing good things to the people that work at it. I'm sure you own a few products that "fund terrorism" (or some other boogeyman) somewhere up the supply chain. The world is a dirty place. Trying to make an example out of everyone who contributes to it just makes it dirtier.
- paulus_magnus2 9y ago
  >Sure, people died as a far downstream result of a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did Breaking antipollution rules was pretty close upstream. Say boss wants to dumps cyanide into water supply, asks you to switch samples used for testing. Close enough for me to blow whistle. It's pretty well known NOx shorten our lives (NOx + H20 = nitric acids in lungs) >a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did 40x in NOx They knew and pushed us into them (anyone else advertised diesel?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNS2nvkjARk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNS2nvkjARk Lastly it's the particles Pm2.5 Pm10. Especially dangerous to children https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25947213 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25947213
  - garaetjjte 9y ago
    I might be wrong, but isn't using EGR (to reduce NOx) actually increase particulates in exhaust?
    - dom0 9y ago
      Correct, EGR increases particulates across the board. Another alternative is to reduce NOx creation in the burning process, which also increases particulate emissions and DPF clogging.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  Sure, people died as a far downstream result of a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did. The effect is far enough downstream that it's not really relevant. I disagree. Your approach just leads to buck-passing and cover-ups as corporate actors get into the habit of dumping costly externalities in the public's lap while pocketing subsidies and profits obtained through deception. Guessing the cost of the externality requires estimating the excess pollution emitted by each vehicle model, the mortality incidence associated with the pollutants, and the sales volume - very easy for automotive production executives to acquire and correlate, an economic analysis they would be expected to perform anyway as part of their job.
- hinkley 9y ago
  People with pulmonary or cardiac disease drop like flies when the air quality gets bad enough. It's not -that- far downstream. Are you thinking of issues like bio-accumulation of pollutants?

Corporations aren't democracies, closer to tyrannies (Chomsky). You refuse work, look for new one... Waiting for his boss to get 400 months, and 10x until CEO level. They killed people ffs.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

>They killed people ffs You say that as though they shot them or discussed the possible body count in a meeting. Sure, people died as a far downstream result of a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did. The effect is far enough downstream that it's not really relevant. The alternative to VW breaking the law was not a pollution free world. People die as a result of things that are technically preventable all the time but society does not have the resources to allocate to preventing every "preventable" death or disease. We as a society don't judge people by every downstream effect of their actions. The lithium mine required to supply some of the materials for the computer or phone you typed that poorly thought out comment on probably isn't doing good things to the people that work at it. I'm sure you own a few products that "fund terrorism" (or some other boogeyman) somewhere up the supply chain. The world is a dirty place. Trying to make an example out of everyone who contributes to it just makes it dirtier.

paulus_magnus2 9y ago
>Sure, people died as a far downstream result of a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did Breaking antipollution rules was pretty close upstream. Say boss wants to dumps cyanide into water supply, asks you to switch samples used for testing. Close enough for me to blow whistle. It's pretty well known NOx shorten our lives (NOx + H20 = nitric acids in lungs) >a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did 40x in NOx They knew and pushed us into them (anyone else advertised diesel?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNS2nvkjARk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNS2nvkjARk Lastly it's the particles Pm2.5 Pm10. Especially dangerous to children https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25947213 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25947213
- garaetjjte 9y ago
  I might be wrong, but isn't using EGR (to reduce NOx) actually increase particulates in exhaust?
  - dom0 9y ago
    Correct, EGR increases particulates across the board. Another alternative is to reduce NOx creation in the burning process, which also increases particulate emissions and DPF clogging.
anigbrowl 9y ago
Sure, people died as a far downstream result of a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did. The effect is far enough downstream that it's not really relevant. I disagree. Your approach just leads to buck-passing and cover-ups as corporate actors get into the habit of dumping costly externalities in the public's lap while pocketing subsidies and profits obtained through deception. Guessing the cost of the externality requires estimating the excess pollution emitted by each vehicle model, the mortality incidence associated with the pollutants, and the sales volume - very easy for automotive production executives to acquire and correlate, an economic analysis they would be expected to perform anyway as part of their job.
hinkley 9y ago
People with pulmonary or cardiac disease drop like flies when the air quality gets bad enough. It's not -that- far downstream. Are you thinking of issues like bio-accumulation of pollutants?