4 ms·

There's a flip side implication of this decision: it gives tremendous autonomy to engineers to stand up to management. It can empower legions of engineers to do

There's a flip side implication of this decision: it gives tremendous autonomy to engineers to stand up to management. It can empower legions of engineers to do the right thing when faced with pressure to do wrong. Maybe I'm trying too hard to find a silver lining. I'm angered at the hypocrisy of the management getting to sleep in their own beds for the next 40 months and their kids having no indication of their parent's role in this crime, while this engineer's reputation gets smeared for life. Not that he was innocent, but being the lone fallguy for a billion dollar corporation doesn't particular feel like justice.

LoSboccacc 9y ago
Not a chance unless clear whistleblower laws emerge providing strong incentives coupled with extreme protections
- vmarsy 9y ago
  There is already such incentives for companies defrauding the government [1] : "Qui tam" where the whistleblower can receive "between 15% and 25% of any award or settlement amount" on cases like this seems to be a pretty huge incentive. Look at the "Example" section in [1]: - 2009 : [...] was awarded $51.5 million for his role as a whistleblower 102 million that was distributed between the six whistleblowers [...] whistleblower was awarded 18% of the $253 million civil settlement - 2012 : was entitled to $3.6 million of the settlement [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tam#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tam#United_States
  - LoSboccacc 9y ago
    seems little for a lifetime of unemployment
    - lmm 9y ago
      For comparison, average lifetime earnings in the US for someone with a degree are $1.8 million.
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      Are you kidding? $3.6 million is enough to retire and live comfortably for the rest of your life.
      - LoSboccacc 9y ago
        You think money is all that is for a comfortable life?
        PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        Of course not, but "having a job" isn't on that list. There's a whole world of hobbies, movies, books, people, and conversations that you'd be free to explore to your heart's content. If you want to build things, go right ahead, on your own terms and whenever you feel like it. Why on earth would you miss being required to sit in an office 40 hours a week?
    - nwallin 9y ago
      If you stick $3.6m in a mutual fund and assume 5% returns, (which is extremely conservative) you'll maintain $180k indefinitely. Unless you waste it all on hookers, blow, and Lamborghinis you'll live pretty comfortably for life.
    - s73ver_ 9y ago
      Why would you be unwilling to hire someone who's demonstrated that they're an ethical person?
      - LoSboccacc 9y ago
        why is it suddenly about me? I would. but statistically speaking, hr hiring and firing patterns do penalize any behavior that would get a company into legal trouble.
kermittd 9y ago
I was going to make a similar comment but in this case wasn't this guy in a leadership role? I believe the article may have even referred to him as an exec but I have to reread. But yes others should definitely be held responsible.
- ErnestedCode 9y ago
  "Liang is one of the lowest-ranking executives charged so far."
sqeaky 9y ago
Read the article. This guy was an executive and 7 or 8 other executive were charged as well. He happened to be the executive in charge of engineering. He also plead guilty.
- ballenf 9y ago
  I thought I had read it closely, but did miss the detail regarding his executive status. The implication remains, however, that higher executives were the source of the pressure to defraud. Maybe it was his idea and maybe they did get the "right" person. Pleading guilty, however, is as much a sign of pragmatic intelligence as actual guilt, especially when dealing with federal law enforcement in the US.
  - jonas21 9y ago
    One higher executive (Oliver Schmidt) has pleaded guilty and is awaiting sentencing. The others are German citizens living in Germany and can't be extradited. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/business/volkswagen-diesel-oliver-schmidt.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/business/volkswagen-diese...
    - rsp1984 9y ago
      Technically Oliver Schmidt is also a German citizen, living in Germany. He just made the mistake of going to Florida for holiday...
    - norikki 9y ago
      Yes because criminally corrupt executives can not be extradided, but if Julian Assange steps outside he'll get a bag over his head and a one-way trip to Guantanamo Bay.
      - kbenson 9y ago
        Doubtful. He would possibly have to stand trial for specific charges, whether or not they are ultimately rooted in truth. Keep in mind that Assange is essentially the head of a news organization, and famous himself (in a related fashion). He can say both facts and opinions and they will be picked up and carried by others without checking the veracity or likelihood of being true because of his celebrity. Additionally, people will exaggerate his claims based on their own agendas. It's worth looking into the situation before accepting his take on it, or even that of his supporters, verbatim.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

LoSboccacc 9y ago

Not a chance unless clear whistleblower laws emerge providing strong incentives coupled with extreme protections

vmarsy 9y ago
There is already such incentives for companies defrauding the government [1] : "Qui tam" where the whistleblower can receive "between 15% and 25% of any award or settlement amount" on cases like this seems to be a pretty huge incentive. Look at the "Example" section in [1]: - 2009 : [...] was awarded $51.5 million for his role as a whistleblower 102 million that was distributed between the six whistleblowers [...] whistleblower was awarded 18% of the $253 million civil settlement - 2012 : was entitled to $3.6 million of the settlement [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tam#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tam#United_States
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  seems little for a lifetime of unemployment
  - lmm 9y ago
    For comparison, average lifetime earnings in the US for someone with a degree are $1.8 million.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    Are you kidding? $3.6 million is enough to retire and live comfortably for the rest of your life.
    - LoSboccacc 9y ago
      You think money is all that is for a comfortable life?
      - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        Of course not, but "having a job" isn't on that list. There's a whole world of hobbies, movies, books, people, and conversations that you'd be free to explore to your heart's content. If you want to build things, go right ahead, on your own terms and whenever you feel like it. Why on earth would you miss being required to sit in an office 40 hours a week?
  - nwallin 9y ago
    If you stick $3.6m in a mutual fund and assume 5% returns, (which is extremely conservative) you'll maintain $180k indefinitely. Unless you waste it all on hookers, blow, and Lamborghinis you'll live pretty comfortably for life.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    Why would you be unwilling to hire someone who's demonstrated that they're an ethical person?
    - LoSboccacc 9y ago
      why is it suddenly about me? I would. but statistically speaking, hr hiring and firing patterns do penalize any behavior that would get a company into legal trouble.

kermittd 9y ago

I was going to make a similar comment but in this case wasn't this guy in a leadership role? I believe the article may have even referred to him as an exec but I have to reread. But yes others should definitely be held responsible.

ErnestedCode 9y ago
"Liang is one of the lowest-ranking executives charged so far."

sqeaky 9y ago

Read the article. This guy was an executive and 7 or 8 other executive were charged as well. He happened to be the executive in charge of engineering. He also plead guilty.

ballenf 9y ago
I thought I had read it closely, but did miss the detail regarding his executive status. The implication remains, however, that higher executives were the source of the pressure to defraud. Maybe it was his idea and maybe they did get the "right" person. Pleading guilty, however, is as much a sign of pragmatic intelligence as actual guilt, especially when dealing with federal law enforcement in the US.
- jonas21 9y ago
  One higher executive (Oliver Schmidt) has pleaded guilty and is awaiting sentencing. The others are German citizens living in Germany and can't be extradited. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/business/volkswagen-diesel-oliver-schmidt.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/business/volkswagen-diese...
  - rsp1984 9y ago
    Technically Oliver Schmidt is also a German citizen, living in Germany. He just made the mistake of going to Florida for holiday...
  - norikki 9y ago
    Yes because criminally corrupt executives can not be extradided, but if Julian Assange steps outside he'll get a bag over his head and a one-way trip to Guantanamo Bay.
    - kbenson 9y ago
      Doubtful. He would possibly have to stand trial for specific charges, whether or not they are ultimately rooted in truth. Keep in mind that Assange is essentially the head of a news organization, and famous himself (in a related fashion). He can say both facts and opinions and they will be picked up and carried by others without checking the veracity or likelihood of being true because of his celebrity. Additionally, people will exaggerate his claims based on their own agendas. It's worth looking into the situation before accepting his take on it, or even that of his supporters, verbatim.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]