4 ms·

Despite the fact that all we can do here is argue using anecdotes, I'll toss mine in - I live in the US, not on the west coast (midwest for me). I make over 10

Despite the fact that all we can do here is argue using anecdotes, I'll toss mine in - I live in the US, not on the west coast (midwest for me). I make over 100k a year, I have excellent benefits, lots of vacation time, and when I leave work after 8 hours, nobody bothers me. I do feel incredibly lucky in this situation - I know not everyone gets the stuff I do. But I feel like maybe you might be mistaking "programming in SV/startup community" for "programming in the US". The rest of the country (for the most part) isn't as completely crazy and (sorry to say) idiotic with programming jobs and lifestyles as SV is.

gtaylor 9y ago
I'll add another one: I'm in SV, good money/benefits, work 40 hour weeks. I'm good at what I do but nowhere near world-class. There are great companies all around the world, and there are crap companies all over the world.
jacobush 9y ago
But in Sweden almost EVERYONE (full time workers) gets 5 weeks vacation, 4 weeks contiguous, no questions asked. Not just engineers at great companies.
- devmunchies 9y ago
  Sounds like high-school teachers in the US. Even the same pay scale. From what people are saying (myself included) is that you can find those jobs in the US but possibly with double the salary. There's more variation.
  - alphaalpha101 9y ago
    I think you're still missing the point. It isn't all about what we can individually get. I don't want to live in a country where you have to have a special high-paying job to get fair and reasonable holidays and healthcare.
cullenking 9y ago
Our company is based in Oregon, not a typical "startup" in that we are a bootstrapped lifestyle business, but we pay competitive wages, full good medical/dental/vision, and a 10% matched 401k. We have lax vacation time policies, typically meaning around four weeks, plus three months paternity and maternity. People work their forty and enjoy frequent three day weekends. We make software for bicyclists so most of our team ride a lot, and we comp all those expenses and a good amount of their fun bike trips. Not to mention a 2k bike budget when they get hired. All that, and we still have a hell of a time finding good candidates with the right attitude. Blows my mind that I can read people here saying they have to move out of the country to feel respected, and we have a hard time finding people... Just another anecdotal rant to add to the pile :)

gtaylor 9y ago

I'll add another one: I'm in SV, good money/benefits, work 40 hour weeks. I'm good at what I do but nowhere near world-class. There are great companies all around the world, and there are crap companies all over the world.

jacobush 9y ago

But in Sweden almost EVERYONE (full time workers) gets 5 weeks vacation, 4 weeks contiguous, no questions asked. Not just engineers at great companies.

devmunchies 9y ago
Sounds like high-school teachers in the US. Even the same pay scale. From what people are saying (myself included) is that you can find those jobs in the US but possibly with double the salary. There's more variation.
- alphaalpha101 9y ago
  I think you're still missing the point. It isn't all about what we can individually get. I don't want to live in a country where you have to have a special high-paying job to get fair and reasonable holidays and healthcare.

cullenking 9y ago

Our company is based in Oregon, not a typical "startup" in that we are a bootstrapped lifestyle business, but we pay competitive wages, full good medical/dental/vision, and a 10% matched 401k. We have lax vacation time policies, typically meaning around four weeks, plus three months paternity and maternity. People work their forty and enjoy frequent three day weekends. We make software for bicyclists so most of our team ride a lot, and we comp all those expenses and a good amount of their fun bike trips. Not to mention a 2k bike budget when they get hired. All that, and we still have a hell of a time finding good candidates with the right attitude. Blows my mind that I can read people here saying they have to move out of the country to feel respected, and we have a hard time finding people... Just another anecdotal rant to add to the pile :)