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I find it odd that all the reported consequences of global warming are negative. Why wouldn't a modest rise in temperature do some good in at least some ways? I

I find it odd that all the reported consequences of global warming are negative. Why wouldn't a modest rise in temperature do some good in at least some ways? I suspect that that would not advance the demanded panic, and is therefore ignored.

yequalsx 9y ago
Do you really believe there is a conspiracy amongst the experts who study these things? Are there other areas of science in which scientists conspire to withhold information? If not why would you think this is the unique area of science that withholds information?
- BurningFrog 9y ago
  No, but there is a huge bias in reporting favoring bad news.
  - yequalsx 9y ago
    What evidence do you have that there is such a bias? Have you considered the possibility that the prevalence of bad news as you call it is indeed the truth? That the absence of good news might be because the positive effects are dwarfed by the negative?
    - BurningFrog 9y ago
      Let me rephrase, and maybe you'll agree. If one million people in a city don't get murdered, and one does get murdered, whose fate will be reported as news? The murdered one of course. And the reporting will be truthful. But that doesn't mean most people get murdered.
      - yequalsx 9y ago
        This is not at all relevant to the discussion. The one getting murdered is newsworthy and noteworthy. The many that do not is not newsworthy. Rapidly increasing the temperature of the planet will have devastating consequences. Write news articles on its few benefits is not newsworthy in light of the impending devastation.
        BurningFrog 9y ago
        I note that now you're agreeing with yostrovs who originally asked "Why wouldn't a modest rise in temperature do some good in at least some ways?".
        yequalsx 9y ago
        I never disputed this or implied otherwise. It's quite clear from what I have written that I acknowledge there will be some benefits. It's equally clear from what I've written that the lack of articles on this is not indicative of politics or some other nefarious reason.
- nnfy 9y ago
  Even a cursory literature review will show you that there are almost no positive articles published regarding climate change, and it is patently false that not a single place or peoples on this planet could benefit from a warmer climate. There may not be an explicit conspiracy, but there is an emergent, cultural force which has lead to the politicization of sciences, and I imagine you are aware that scientists have quite a bit of leeway in what they choose to study/report. Anecdote, I know, but I say this as someone who went to school with future climate scientists, and their minds were made up long before they made it to grad school. Whether you think climate change is catastrophic or not, you must agree that there is not enough skeptical literature available, and that makes it difficult for me personally to swallow the narrative without hesitation.
  - yequalsx 9y ago
    Yes there is a paucity of articles on the benefits of climate change. Is it because of conspiracy or because the effects are overwhelmingly bad? Overwhelmingly physics grads enter grad school believing that the Earth revolves around the sun. There's a lack of articles in physics journals to the contrary. There's a lack of skeptical literature. The lack of articles touting the benefits of climate change do not indicate there is a conspiracy nor should one think that there should be such articles in any but a small amount. This is especially so given the political climate in the U.S. where people are skeptical of climate science.
    - nnfy 9y ago
      This phenomenon is circular. There is a void of publications on the subject, therefore, scientists and laymen begin to believe that there is no second side, and, combine that with politics, we end up with a seemingly settled science when, in truth, the process has not been scientific for at least a decade. It is also absurd to be so certain about our potential impact on something as complex and chaotic as climate. Especially considering we also rely on trends on the order of millions of years, and we are making a judgment based on many orders of magnitude less time. Is it a bet worth making? Sure, in my opinion, but without some published skepticism, climate science may as well be propaganda when it comes to convincing people to act.
nkrisc 9y ago
Do good for whom? Sure, some species might benefit even if it's a disaster for humans.
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  Maybe we made our own bed? There's a part of me that would like to give it all back.
- yostrovs 9y ago
  Well, there were a few times in the last few hundred years of warmer global weather. And those coincided with good economic times for humans. Perhaps global warming would be detrimental to other species more than humans, as humans adapt well, particularly to more pleasant environments.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    I don't think that's true. The two big changes in the past thousand or so years were the Medeival Warm Period and the Little Ice Age. Both were more regional than global, and the Little Ice Age coincided with the Industrial Revolution, which of course started extremely good economic times.
tdb7893 9y ago
The environment is adapted to the current situation so any swift change is bad. There might be some scattered good things but as the assumptions that much of human infrastructure is built on changes then there are obviously going to be trillions more in damages than benefits.
stevenwoo 9y ago
Certain parts of the world/USA that are not suitable for farming now would become suitable for farming if they are not currently occupied. Parts that are not suitable for crops would either no longer be suitable for crops at all or need a different crop selection. We also theorized that changing the global temperature affects weather patterns like a spring so that extremes in temperature changes/weather patterns will accompany the rising temperatures, and see it happening so it's a pretty solid hypothesis. This is overall a negative except for fans of extreme weather.
mikeash 9y ago
The good aspects aren't ignored, they're just relatively small. Rapid change creates problems even when the net difference is superficially zero. For example, if I knocked down your house, but built two better houses in the middle of Nunavut, you'd probably still be unhappy, and it would still cause problems for your life.
singularity2001 9y ago
As others stated the negative consequences most likely outweigh the benefits (by far). Just for those who want to enter their weekend joyfully here is a list of possible positive outcomes: * Siberia and Alaska become huge new areas for plantations. * Siberia and Alaska become habitable, wonderful nature reserves with Mammoths roaming about. * Due to rising CO2 levels plants grow faster and bigger * Due to rising temperatures the earth gets much wetter[0] * If you are lucky you might even witness the re-greening of the Sahara (not predicted by most simulations though?) * improved access to minerals on the ocean bed * increased fishing near Arctic * ice-free shipping lanes. To limit your euphoria: the situation is much more dire for the Oceans. Also the system gets more chaotic with consequences spelled out and unforeseen. [0] A parcel of air that is near saturation may contain 28 grams of water per cubic meter of air at 30 °C, but only 8 grams of water per cubic meter of air at 8 °C.

yequalsx 9y ago

Do you really believe there is a conspiracy amongst the experts who study these things? Are there other areas of science in which scientists conspire to withhold information? If not why would you think this is the unique area of science that withholds information?

BurningFrog 9y ago
No, but there is a huge bias in reporting favoring bad news.
- yequalsx 9y ago
  What evidence do you have that there is such a bias? Have you considered the possibility that the prevalence of bad news as you call it is indeed the truth? That the absence of good news might be because the positive effects are dwarfed by the negative?
  - BurningFrog 9y ago
    Let me rephrase, and maybe you'll agree. If one million people in a city don't get murdered, and one does get murdered, whose fate will be reported as news? The murdered one of course. And the reporting will be truthful. But that doesn't mean most people get murdered.
    - yequalsx 9y ago
      This is not at all relevant to the discussion. The one getting murdered is newsworthy and noteworthy. The many that do not is not newsworthy. Rapidly increasing the temperature of the planet will have devastating consequences. Write news articles on its few benefits is not newsworthy in light of the impending devastation.
      - BurningFrog 9y ago
        I note that now you're agreeing with yostrovs who originally asked "Why wouldn't a modest rise in temperature do some good in at least some ways?".
        yequalsx 9y ago
        I never disputed this or implied otherwise. It's quite clear from what I have written that I acknowledge there will be some benefits. It's equally clear from what I've written that the lack of articles on this is not indicative of politics or some other nefarious reason.
nnfy 9y ago
Even a cursory literature review will show you that there are almost no positive articles published regarding climate change, and it is patently false that not a single place or peoples on this planet could benefit from a warmer climate. There may not be an explicit conspiracy, but there is an emergent, cultural force which has lead to the politicization of sciences, and I imagine you are aware that scientists have quite a bit of leeway in what they choose to study/report. Anecdote, I know, but I say this as someone who went to school with future climate scientists, and their minds were made up long before they made it to grad school. Whether you think climate change is catastrophic or not, you must agree that there is not enough skeptical literature available, and that makes it difficult for me personally to swallow the narrative without hesitation.
- yequalsx 9y ago
  Yes there is a paucity of articles on the benefits of climate change. Is it because of conspiracy or because the effects are overwhelmingly bad? Overwhelmingly physics grads enter grad school believing that the Earth revolves around the sun. There's a lack of articles in physics journals to the contrary. There's a lack of skeptical literature. The lack of articles touting the benefits of climate change do not indicate there is a conspiracy nor should one think that there should be such articles in any but a small amount. This is especially so given the political climate in the U.S. where people are skeptical of climate science.
  - nnfy 9y ago
    This phenomenon is circular. There is a void of publications on the subject, therefore, scientists and laymen begin to believe that there is no second side, and, combine that with politics, we end up with a seemingly settled science when, in truth, the process has not been scientific for at least a decade. It is also absurd to be so certain about our potential impact on something as complex and chaotic as climate. Especially considering we also rely on trends on the order of millions of years, and we are making a judgment based on many orders of magnitude less time. Is it a bet worth making? Sure, in my opinion, but without some published skepticism, climate science may as well be propaganda when it comes to convincing people to act.

nkrisc 9y ago

Do good for whom? Sure, some species might benefit even if it's a disaster for humans.

icantdrive55 9y ago
Maybe we made our own bed? There's a part of me that would like to give it all back.
yostrovs 9y ago
Well, there were a few times in the last few hundred years of warmer global weather. And those coincided with good economic times for humans. Perhaps global warming would be detrimental to other species more than humans, as humans adapt well, particularly to more pleasant environments.
- mikeash 9y ago
  I don't think that's true. The two big changes in the past thousand or so years were the Medeival Warm Period and the Little Ice Age. Both were more regional than global, and the Little Ice Age coincided with the Industrial Revolution, which of course started extremely good economic times.

tdb7893 9y ago

The environment is adapted to the current situation so any swift change is bad. There might be some scattered good things but as the assumptions that much of human infrastructure is built on changes then there are obviously going to be trillions more in damages than benefits.

stevenwoo 9y ago

Certain parts of the world/USA that are not suitable for farming now would become suitable for farming if they are not currently occupied. Parts that are not suitable for crops would either no longer be suitable for crops at all or need a different crop selection. We also theorized that changing the global temperature affects weather patterns like a spring so that extremes in temperature changes/weather patterns will accompany the rising temperatures, and see it happening so it's a pretty solid hypothesis. This is overall a negative except for fans of extreme weather.

mikeash 9y ago

The good aspects aren't ignored, they're just relatively small. Rapid change creates problems even when the net difference is superficially zero. For example, if I knocked down your house, but built two better houses in the middle of Nunavut, you'd probably still be unhappy, and it would still cause problems for your life.

singularity2001 9y ago

As others stated the negative consequences most likely outweigh the benefits (by far). Just for those who want to enter their weekend joyfully here is a list of possible positive outcomes: * Siberia and Alaska become huge new areas for plantations. * Siberia and Alaska become habitable, wonderful nature reserves with Mammoths roaming about. * Due to rising CO2 levels plants grow faster and bigger * Due to rising temperatures the earth gets much wetter[0] * If you are lucky you might even witness the re-greening of the Sahara (not predicted by most simulations though?) * improved access to minerals on the ocean bed * increased fishing near Arctic * ice-free shipping lanes. To limit your euphoria: the situation is much more dire for the Oceans. Also the system gets more chaotic with consequences spelled out and unforeseen. [0] A parcel of air that is near saturation may contain 28 grams of water per cubic meter of air at 30 °C, but only 8 grams of water per cubic meter of air at 8 °C.