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Warning: metformin works by interfering with the mechanism cells use to, well, essentially request food. Whilst yes, chronically working on too little energy ha

Warning: metformin works by interfering with the mechanism cells use to, well, essentially request food. Whilst yes, chronically working on too little energy has been proven to extend lifespans, you will not like the side effects. For one it makes you stupid. Obviously it interferes with everything requiring effort, from running to sex. There are cell types in your body that will, when faced with an energy shortage simply consume themselves. Usually, this means trading a sudden death for permanent damage, for example heart muscle cells. This means that when faced with an energy shortage they will kill themselves. An overdose of Metformin can cause this to occur on a large scale and when that happens, your life is somewhere between over and very short. Do not take any medication without being aware of the side effects and getting advice from a doctor (and let me spoil the surprise: your doctor will advise against both metformin and calorie restriction. He will be happy to prescribe you a placebo. You would be surprised how calming taking one can be) There are other treatments that extend life, like taking aspirin daily, and other metabolism blockers, anti inflammatories and blood thinners. All come at a serious cost (DO NOT take aspirin daily unless you're happy to bleed to death with any major injury) which makes a lot of sense if you think about it.

hendersoon 9y ago
Do you have any evidence for the claims that metformin negatively impacts intelligence and energy?
- candiodari 9y ago
  Energy, yes. Intelligence, not directly. But I can provide links that caloric restriction diets do (that means diets that are sufficiently strict that you lose weight no matter what weight you currently have). (And that's in adults, in children they cause total disasters) Since this is the working mechanism of that drug, I felt it relevant to put there.
  - hendersoon 9y ago
    Please cite sources or stop spreading FUD. I'm not a physician, but I've heard that like many life-saving drugs, Metformin's working mechanism is not yet well understood. It's a vast oversimplification and likely completely _wrong_ that Metformin has the same effect as calorie restriction. If that was so, logic dictates that Metformin would be effective for weight loss. It isn't.
JBReefer 9y ago
I'm going to need some citations here, I find it hard to believe that low-dose aspirin in healthy adults would substantially impact mortality in major trauma events.
TFortunato 9y ago
Citation needed on metformin "making you stupid", and "interfering with anything requiring effort", especially given the multiple studies showing metformin to improve exercise tolerance, and preventing cognitive decline in patients who have taken it.
carbocation 9y ago
This borders between worthless and harmful. If you're going to make statements that stand completely at odds with the medical establishment, it's really your burden to provide evidence that you're right. Metformin is not associated with cognitive impairment in interventional trials[1]. I don't think it's my job to refute every piece of nonsense with literature citations, but it could be done. 1 = https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28500216 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28500216
SwellJoe 9y ago
"For one it makes you stupid. Obviously it interferes with everything requiring effort, from running to sex." Fasting (one way to alter insulin sensitivity without drugs) has been reported to increase focus and energy. I have been doing intermittent fasting (16 hour fast/8 hour feast, with an occasional 24 hour fast) for the past four or five months (I started logging my results about 3 months ago, but I started before that in an imprecise sort of way). I haven't noticed a significant change either way. I feel fine, with normal levels of energy and the like. I don't think I'm stupider because of it, though I probably ought to do some A/B testing to be sure. I've never taken metformin, and haven't done any real research beyond reading the article and the Wikipedia page about it, so I don't really know what it does to someone, but as I understand it sounds like your main concern is the effect on insulin sensitivity. But, insulin sensitivity seems to be a major factor in weight and health, and growing evidence suggests that actions improving it also improve general health. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss it or to assume the most simplistic explanation of how the body works (e.g. glucose makes brains smarter, or glucose makes bodies energetic) is the correct or complete one.
- 1024core 9y ago
  What do you consider "fasting"? No food at all? What about drinks like coffee/tea? How about water? Just curious about fasting, need to get into it.
  - SwellJoe 9y ago
    There's quite a bit of information out there about the various sorts of intermittent fasting people are doing. Some people do longer, less frequent, fasts. Some people combine it with other diets. My intermittent fasting looks like this: For eight hours from midday until evening (the exact times shift a little based on my waking and sleeping schedule; 2PM to 10PM is a pretty common schedule for me), I eat like a responsible adult. Minimal junk food, desserts in moderation, try to make my meals balanced, don't eat too much sugar or simple carbs. I don't deny myself anything I crave, generally speaking, but I try not to eat garbage. I am also a vegetarian, occasional vegan, but I've been doing that for 23 years...it is unrelated to my current diet and fasting. During the other 16 hours of the day, I eat nothing and drink nothing with calories. I drink water and unsweetened green tea (iced or hot depending on the weather; right now, it's summer and I'm in Texas, so it's iced tea). I don't drink coffee, but I normally don't drink coffee so that's not a change. Some people who fast drink coffee without sugar or dairy; I assume it has no or very few calories. I never stop drinking water and don't know of any evidence that supports dehydration as a beneficial practice. I'm not seeking spiritual enlightenment or going on a hunger strike, I'm trying to maintain good health as I age. The goal of intermittent fasting (as practiced by the folks I pay attention to) is to force your body to improve insulin sensitivity and to reduce caloric intake by 20-30% without having to count calories or give up favorite foods. I don't know if it's the optimal practice, but it seems to be working OK for me, so far. I have lost about 15 pounds (and I'd lost about 5 pounds before that on a reduced calorie diet), which averages out to a little less than a pound every week since I started. Weight loss has slowed somewhat in the past month or so. I have begun lifting weights a couple times a week, though, so that may be offsetting my weight loss with regained muscle. You probably need to come up with a fasting schedule that works for you and fits your existing daily routine. Skipping breakfast was easiest for me, and I know I have trouble sleeping well when I'm hungry, so eating late in the day is the right schedule for me. 16/8 is a reasonable balance, for me, as well. I find it's really quite easy to maintain; I go to bed two or three hours after my evening meal and then sleep through the next eight hours of the fast. Then I've only got five or six hours to go after I wake up before eating. I sip tea through that time, and most days barely notice my hunger. I don't know if I'll do this forever but, assuming evidence continues to mount about the benefits of caloric restriction and improved insulin sensitivity, it seems like I'll keep at it for the foreseeable future.
sliken 9y ago
I've got a smart active wife. She feels better on metformin and I think we'd both notice the effects you mention if they were common.

hendersoon 9y ago

Do you have any evidence for the claims that metformin negatively impacts intelligence and energy?

candiodari 9y ago
Energy, yes. Intelligence, not directly. But I can provide links that caloric restriction diets do (that means diets that are sufficiently strict that you lose weight no matter what weight you currently have). (And that's in adults, in children they cause total disasters) Since this is the working mechanism of that drug, I felt it relevant to put there.
- hendersoon 9y ago
  Please cite sources or stop spreading FUD. I'm not a physician, but I've heard that like many life-saving drugs, Metformin's working mechanism is not yet well understood. It's a vast oversimplification and likely completely _wrong_ that Metformin has the same effect as calorie restriction. If that was so, logic dictates that Metformin would be effective for weight loss. It isn't.

JBReefer 9y ago

I'm going to need some citations here, I find it hard to believe that low-dose aspirin in healthy adults would substantially impact mortality in major trauma events.

TFortunato 9y ago

Citation needed on metformin "making you stupid", and "interfering with anything requiring effort", especially given the multiple studies showing metformin to improve exercise tolerance, and preventing cognitive decline in patients who have taken it.

carbocation 9y ago

This borders between worthless and harmful. If you're going to make statements that stand completely at odds with the medical establishment, it's really your burden to provide evidence that you're right. Metformin is not associated with cognitive impairment in interventional trials[1]. I don't think it's my job to refute every piece of nonsense with literature citations, but it could be done. 1 = https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28500216 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28500216

SwellJoe 9y ago

"For one it makes you stupid. Obviously it interferes with everything requiring effort, from running to sex." Fasting (one way to alter insulin sensitivity without drugs) has been reported to increase focus and energy. I have been doing intermittent fasting (16 hour fast/8 hour feast, with an occasional 24 hour fast) for the past four or five months (I started logging my results about 3 months ago, but I started before that in an imprecise sort of way). I haven't noticed a significant change either way. I feel fine, with normal levels of energy and the like. I don't think I'm stupider because of it, though I probably ought to do some A/B testing to be sure. I've never taken metformin, and haven't done any real research beyond reading the article and the Wikipedia page about it, so I don't really know what it does to someone, but as I understand it sounds like your main concern is the effect on insulin sensitivity. But, insulin sensitivity seems to be a major factor in weight and health, and growing evidence suggests that actions improving it also improve general health. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss it or to assume the most simplistic explanation of how the body works (e.g. glucose makes brains smarter, or glucose makes bodies energetic) is the correct or complete one.

1024core 9y ago
What do you consider "fasting"? No food at all? What about drinks like coffee/tea? How about water? Just curious about fasting, need to get into it.
- SwellJoe 9y ago
  There's quite a bit of information out there about the various sorts of intermittent fasting people are doing. Some people do longer, less frequent, fasts. Some people combine it with other diets. My intermittent fasting looks like this: For eight hours from midday until evening (the exact times shift a little based on my waking and sleeping schedule; 2PM to 10PM is a pretty common schedule for me), I eat like a responsible adult. Minimal junk food, desserts in moderation, try to make my meals balanced, don't eat too much sugar or simple carbs. I don't deny myself anything I crave, generally speaking, but I try not to eat garbage. I am also a vegetarian, occasional vegan, but I've been doing that for 23 years...it is unrelated to my current diet and fasting. During the other 16 hours of the day, I eat nothing and drink nothing with calories. I drink water and unsweetened green tea (iced or hot depending on the weather; right now, it's summer and I'm in Texas, so it's iced tea). I don't drink coffee, but I normally don't drink coffee so that's not a change. Some people who fast drink coffee without sugar or dairy; I assume it has no or very few calories. I never stop drinking water and don't know of any evidence that supports dehydration as a beneficial practice. I'm not seeking spiritual enlightenment or going on a hunger strike, I'm trying to maintain good health as I age. The goal of intermittent fasting (as practiced by the folks I pay attention to) is to force your body to improve insulin sensitivity and to reduce caloric intake by 20-30% without having to count calories or give up favorite foods. I don't know if it's the optimal practice, but it seems to be working OK for me, so far. I have lost about 15 pounds (and I'd lost about 5 pounds before that on a reduced calorie diet), which averages out to a little less than a pound every week since I started. Weight loss has slowed somewhat in the past month or so. I have begun lifting weights a couple times a week, though, so that may be offsetting my weight loss with regained muscle. You probably need to come up with a fasting schedule that works for you and fits your existing daily routine. Skipping breakfast was easiest for me, and I know I have trouble sleeping well when I'm hungry, so eating late in the day is the right schedule for me. 16/8 is a reasonable balance, for me, as well. I find it's really quite easy to maintain; I go to bed two or three hours after my evening meal and then sleep through the next eight hours of the fast. Then I've only got five or six hours to go after I wake up before eating. I sip tea through that time, and most days barely notice my hunger. I don't know if I'll do this forever but, assuming evidence continues to mount about the benefits of caloric restriction and improved insulin sensitivity, it seems like I'll keep at it for the foreseeable future.

sliken 9y ago

I've got a smart active wife. She feels better on metformin and I think we'd both notice the effects you mention if they were common.