5 ms·

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes? In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters.

by pluma 9y ago

Does the US not have standardized letter and envelope sizes? In Germany we have standards for paper sizes, window placement and the layout of business letters. Considering this type of letter is probably not typed out by hand, it's trivial to use a template with the correct layout. At that point the choice of letter becomes irrelevant. I'd expect the US to have something similar but maybe they don't? If there are standards, this boils down to either "Aetna used non-standard envelopes" or "Aetna formatted letter incorrectly".

baddox 9y ago
I don't know if there are actual codified standards, but I often receive letters (mostly bills) with the same envelope size and window placement. I would guess they just folded or ordered the contents of the envelope incorrectly.
rdiddly 9y ago
There is no standard that I'm aware of. On a related note, if I had a dollar (or a Euro) for every US problem that the Germans solved long ago through straight thinking, I'd have enough money to move to Germany.
- munificent 9y ago
  > for every US problem that the Germans solved long ago through straight thinking Sad that we apparently need to add "outlawing Nazis" to that list now.
- bdamm 9y ago
  Have you talked to some Germans about how "straight thinking" they think their country is? When you don't get to see the sausage made it looks good but peel pack the process a bit and you'll see that there are still very significant issues. Note: I have huge respect for German society and governance.
- vidarh 9y ago
  The standards for paper and envelope sizes [1] are so ingrained in me that it's almost like metric vs. imperial. They're ISO standards, though based on German standards, and being able to instantly know roughly how big a paper size is, is very convenient. E.g. A4 almost the size of US Letter, but from there we know if you take an A4 sheet, turn it 90 degrees and puts another one above it in the same orientation, you have A3. Repeat for A2 and so on. Or fold an A4 in half and you have A6. Meanwhile an A4 sheet will fit in a B4 or C4 envelope without being folded, or in a B5 or C5 envelope folded in half... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size#International_paper_sizes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size#International_paper...
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  If I had a dollar for every problem the Germans introduce by over-thinking current problems I could drive a German luxury car (that is old enough to not still be under warranty).
  - cr0sh 9y ago
    > I could drive a German luxury car ...and then your mechanic will curse you for having a vehicle that is insanely difficult (and expensive) to repair (hang out on /r/justrolledintotheshop for a little while to see what I mean - "service position" anybody? Or what about the carnage to fix a simple heater core?)...
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      Service position is a Volvo thing IIRC. Reddit has an Toyota fetish which I find pretty intolerable.
saas_sam 9y ago
Yes we do have standard paper and envelope sizes in the US that are similar to Europe. What probably happened here is they printed the info in a dumb layout that was too close to the address field and/or whoever was running the folder-inserter machine did not move the tri-fold area to the right place. (Source: I used to sell these machines.)
- germanier 9y ago
  The point is that the page layout, i.e. where the fold positions, address field, letter title, reference numbers, date, logo, and actual content go, is standardised as well (DIN 5008). Nobody forces you to use that standard but it frees your mind thinking about actually important stuff so everybody does. This doesn't help against incorrectly using a folder-inserter but I have never seen that happen. What does the user need to do to have an incorrect fold?
  - saas_sam 9y ago
    I've not seen a standard position for such fields. Different software produces different layouts of printed information. I suppose it's possible that MOST software will produce a standard layout, but in my short time in the industry I witnessed a wide range of layouts for documents intended to be folded and inserted into a window envelope. (EDIT: Should add that 'software' would also include printer drivers and printer hardware/software that does not always interpret fonts, sizing, etc., in the same way.) As for how folder-inserters can be used incorrectly: there are various settings you have to fine-tune, most notably the location of the creases. If the creases are too far in one direction, you will end up with the address not displaying appropriately in the window. So you run a test, bump it up or down, and repeat until the info is in the window correctly. THEN, and only then, do you proceed to run the remaining 100s or 1000s of pages. Worth noting that tuning is not always due to printed pages being in different layouts. The machines themselves have moving parts that start drifting a bit over time, so you are basically recalibrating it.

by pluma 9y ago

baddox 9y ago

I don't know if there are actual codified standards, but I often receive letters (mostly bills) with the same envelope size and window placement. I would guess they just folded or ordered the contents of the envelope incorrectly.

rdiddly 9y ago

There is no standard that I'm aware of. On a related note, if I had a dollar (or a Euro) for every US problem that the Germans solved long ago through straight thinking, I'd have enough money to move to Germany.

munificent 9y ago
> for every US problem that the Germans solved long ago through straight thinking Sad that we apparently need to add "outlawing Nazis" to that list now.
bdamm 9y ago
Have you talked to some Germans about how "straight thinking" they think their country is? When you don't get to see the sausage made it looks good but peel pack the process a bit and you'll see that there are still very significant issues. Note: I have huge respect for German society and governance.
vidarh 9y ago
The standards for paper and envelope sizes [1] are so ingrained in me that it's almost like metric vs. imperial. They're ISO standards, though based on German standards, and being able to instantly know roughly how big a paper size is, is very convenient. E.g. A4 almost the size of US Letter, but from there we know if you take an A4 sheet, turn it 90 degrees and puts another one above it in the same orientation, you have A3. Repeat for A2 and so on. Or fold an A4 in half and you have A6. Meanwhile an A4 sheet will fit in a B4 or C4 envelope without being folded, or in a B5 or C5 envelope folded in half... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size#International_paper_sizes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size#International_paper...
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
If I had a dollar for every problem the Germans introduce by over-thinking current problems I could drive a German luxury car (that is old enough to not still be under warranty).
- cr0sh 9y ago
  > I could drive a German luxury car ...and then your mechanic will curse you for having a vehicle that is insanely difficult (and expensive) to repair (hang out on /r/justrolledintotheshop for a little while to see what I mean - "service position" anybody? Or what about the carnage to fix a simple heater core?)...
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    Service position is a Volvo thing IIRC. Reddit has an Toyota fetish which I find pretty intolerable.

saas_sam 9y ago

Yes we do have standard paper and envelope sizes in the US that are similar to Europe. What probably happened here is they printed the info in a dumb layout that was too close to the address field and/or whoever was running the folder-inserter machine did not move the tri-fold area to the right place. (Source: I used to sell these machines.)

germanier 9y ago
The point is that the page layout, i.e. where the fold positions, address field, letter title, reference numbers, date, logo, and actual content go, is standardised as well (DIN 5008). Nobody forces you to use that standard but it frees your mind thinking about actually important stuff so everybody does. This doesn't help against incorrectly using a folder-inserter but I have never seen that happen. What does the user need to do to have an incorrect fold?
- saas_sam 9y ago
  I've not seen a standard position for such fields. Different software produces different layouts of printed information. I suppose it's possible that MOST software will produce a standard layout, but in my short time in the industry I witnessed a wide range of layouts for documents intended to be folded and inserted into a window envelope. (EDIT: Should add that 'software' would also include printer drivers and printer hardware/software that does not always interpret fonts, sizing, etc., in the same way.) As for how folder-inserters can be used incorrectly: there are various settings you have to fine-tune, most notably the location of the creases. If the creases are too far in one direction, you will end up with the address not displaying appropriately in the window. So you run a test, bump it up or down, and repeat until the info is in the window correctly. THEN, and only then, do you proceed to run the remaining 100s or 1000s of pages. Worth noting that tuning is not always due to printed pages being in different layouts. The machines themselves have moving parts that start drifting a bit over time, so you are basically recalibrating it.