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As one of those under-deluge hiring managers, I've found that candidates have already begun hiding their bootcamp / academy education during the application pr

As one of those under-deluge hiring managers, I've found that candidates have already begun hiding their bootcamp / academy education during the application process. It is still pretty obvious, though: the resumes are all the same format, as are the application channels and techniques, and experience levels. I'd recommend these individuals look toward internships, as I haven't found one qualified for a full-time job yet. Why aren't bootcamps lining up internship programs?

NoCoastCoder 9y ago
Because the reason people pay for them is the promise of a quick high paying job.
- mipmap04 9y ago
  When I was an intern working on data warehouses, I made like $25/hr, which is pretty good for starting out. With overtime, you make pretty good morning for how little investment is required.
zumu 9y ago
The one I attended, Epicodus, did. It led to a great job at a tiny agency where I actually learned how to build production software. Unfortunately, I do not believe they are able to line up internships for all students anymore.
- sethrin 9y ago
  They haven't been able to guarantee an internship, but they do seem to go to a fair amount of trouble to get everyone one. The last cohort all got internships in the last round, and a couple people from previous cohorts also did as well.
jacalata 9y ago
Some of them are - Ada's, for instance, and LaunchCode, both focus on internships as a big part of the program. But getting employers on board is a lot of work and I'd be surprised if it were possible to find enough places for all the boot camp students out there these days.
wyclif 9y ago
Is a bootcamper over age, say, 30 going to be able to get an internship? The problem there is that internships are generally regarding across the industry as being for fresh college grads.
- nerdponx 9y ago
  This is an issue for anyone looking to change a career, not specifically boot camp grads.
Eridrus 9y ago
Why an internship and not just a super junior developer? Are you unsure about their skills and need time to evaluate?
- m3rc 9y ago
  Isn't a "super junior developer" an intern?
  - Eridrus 9y ago
    Interns are employed for a short fixed time period, rather than an ongoing basis.
    - m3rc 9y ago
      I think it varies and a lot of companies do it differently. I had a part time internship with a software company over the spring semester which "ended" at the end of the semester but that was just a formality to start a new internship contract full-time and with a pay raise for the duration of the summer. Most software companies use internships as "junior-junior" developer positions, I was still writing code that was impactful and used by the company, it was just understood that it was going to take a couple months to get me to a point that I was semi-autonomous.
brooklyn_ashey 9y ago
because they know they can't make money by selling an unpaid/underpaid "opportunity"
vanadium 9y ago
Same experience here as a Director of Front-End Development. Worse than not only hiding that they're coming from a bootcamp, they're positioning their exercises as actual "work experience." Granted, this appears to be a few of many bootcamps instructing their classes to do this, but it's definitely something on my radar these days when I'm looking to hire. Also--and this is an egregious oversight in my opinion--many of the portfolios are nothing more than a lightly modified (if that) Wordpress site, using a select few "popular" templates; usually the templates that tell people what level of experience they have with each technology, etc. If you want my eye, you really need to take the time and initiative to build it independently using what you learned. Agreed, however, that internships and apprenticeships are a great first step coming out of bootcamps, but I don't believe that's the expectation being set when they're admitted. The reason I usually have to pass on bootcamp grads is that, working in a client-focused environment on tight deadlines, time spent training someone up from a narrow view of the industry to what we need is at a very high premium; CS grads coming in as Juniors have anecdotally worked better to that end. Apprenticing at a product-focused organization with high competency in managing expectations is where I see most bootcamp grads excelling.

NoCoastCoder 9y ago

Because the reason people pay for them is the promise of a quick high paying job.

mipmap04 9y ago
When I was an intern working on data warehouses, I made like $25/hr, which is pretty good for starting out. With overtime, you make pretty good morning for how little investment is required.

zumu 9y ago

The one I attended, Epicodus, did. It led to a great job at a tiny agency where I actually learned how to build production software. Unfortunately, I do not believe they are able to line up internships for all students anymore.

sethrin 9y ago
They haven't been able to guarantee an internship, but they do seem to go to a fair amount of trouble to get everyone one. The last cohort all got internships in the last round, and a couple people from previous cohorts also did as well.

jacalata 9y ago

Some of them are - Ada's, for instance, and LaunchCode, both focus on internships as a big part of the program. But getting employers on board is a lot of work and I'd be surprised if it were possible to find enough places for all the boot camp students out there these days.

wyclif 9y ago

Is a bootcamper over age, say, 30 going to be able to get an internship? The problem there is that internships are generally regarding across the industry as being for fresh college grads.

nerdponx 9y ago
This is an issue for anyone looking to change a career, not specifically boot camp grads.

Eridrus 9y ago

Why an internship and not just a super junior developer? Are you unsure about their skills and need time to evaluate?

m3rc 9y ago
Isn't a "super junior developer" an intern?
- Eridrus 9y ago
  Interns are employed for a short fixed time period, rather than an ongoing basis.
  - m3rc 9y ago
    I think it varies and a lot of companies do it differently. I had a part time internship with a software company over the spring semester which "ended" at the end of the semester but that was just a formality to start a new internship contract full-time and with a pay raise for the duration of the summer. Most software companies use internships as "junior-junior" developer positions, I was still writing code that was impactful and used by the company, it was just understood that it was going to take a couple months to get me to a point that I was semi-autonomous.

brooklyn_ashey 9y ago

because they know they can't make money by selling an unpaid/underpaid "opportunity"

vanadium 9y ago

Same experience here as a Director of Front-End Development. Worse than not only hiding that they're coming from a bootcamp, they're positioning their exercises as actual "work experience." Granted, this appears to be a few of many bootcamps instructing their classes to do this, but it's definitely something on my radar these days when I'm looking to hire. Also--and this is an egregious oversight in my opinion--many of the portfolios are nothing more than a lightly modified (if that) Wordpress site, using a select few "popular" templates; usually the templates that tell people what level of experience they have with each technology, etc. If you want my eye, you really need to take the time and initiative to build it independently using what you learned. Agreed, however, that internships and apprenticeships are a great first step coming out of bootcamps, but I don't believe that's the expectation being set when they're admitted. The reason I usually have to pass on bootcamp grads is that, working in a client-focused environment on tight deadlines, time spent training someone up from a narrow view of the industry to what we need is at a very high premium; CS grads coming in as Juniors have anecdotally worked better to that end. Apprenticing at a product-focused organization with high competency in managing expectations is where I see most bootcamp grads excelling.