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> In the unarmed scenario, you need two trained police officers. Two people, well-trained and with good teamwork, can usually restrain even a huge, out-of-contr

> In the unarmed scenario, you need two trained police officers. Two people, well-trained and with good teamwork, can usually restrain even a huge, out-of-control person. This simply is not true. There are plenty of videos out there showing one out of control person fighting off more than two cops. I used to work in a busy hospital ER on a military base, and the military police would frequently bring in drunks they arrested. On a regular basis, it would take four military police plus me and maybe another medic (if they were available) to properly restrain people. Some would fight so fiercely that they were at great risk of harming themselves, and controlling this was often the biggest part of the problem. You can't just sit on them, you have to subdue them properly. If someone is threatening your life you can choose to use deadly force in self-defense, but if not then you have to restrain them, and this takes a lot of work. Put two 'well trained' cops against one determined drunk or druggie, and you get three injured people. This is not a trivial problem.

jMyles 9y ago
> This simply is not true. There are plenty of videos out there showing one out of control person fighting off more than two cops. Can you show me a video where two people (police or otherwise) show good sense and martial arts training and are still unable to restrain someone? One of the most common things I see in these videos (and I've seen it in person, even with cops I respect) is stepping the wrong way through an armbar. Standing armbar is, without a doubt, the #1 go-to technique for police and bouncers who are trying to restrain someone without using a weapon. If I see a video of stepping forward through an armbar instead of back, I instantly know that our system has failed that police officer in terms of understanding how their body works vis a vis restraining someone. It's totally true that, occasionally, a single person can make themselves impossible to restrain even by two people. Even more rarely, the person in question can continue to harm other people or property. In that scenario, as I said, I think it's better for society to commit more people to the situation rather than (what I think is the lazy and destructive inclination to) add less lethal weapons.

jMyles 9y ago

> This simply is not true. There are plenty of videos out there showing one out of control person fighting off more than two cops. Can you show me a video where two people (police or otherwise) show good sense and martial arts training and are still unable to restrain someone? One of the most common things I see in these videos (and I've seen it in person, even with cops I respect) is stepping the wrong way through an armbar. Standing armbar is, without a doubt, the #1 go-to technique for police and bouncers who are trying to restrain someone without using a weapon. If I see a video of stepping forward through an armbar instead of back, I instantly know that our system has failed that police officer in terms of understanding how their body works vis a vis restraining someone. It's totally true that, occasionally, a single person can make themselves impossible to restrain even by two people. Even more rarely, the person in question can continue to harm other people or property. In that scenario, as I said, I think it's better for society to commit more people to the situation rather than (what I think is the lazy and destructive inclination to) add less lethal weapons.