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A black person cannot hide his blackness. Black people are currently perceived as lower class. Making it easier for them to enter universities means that they g

by jeb 16y ago

A black person cannot hide his blackness. Black people are currently perceived as lower class. Making it easier for them to enter universities means that they get to be upper class easier (it's not easy to break the class barrier). What this implies is that there will be a diverse range of skin color across all classes, reducing the perception that black skin implies lower class. Doing so only for conservatives does nothing to help this goal.

jerf 16y ago
You may believe that, it may be a good argument. But it isn't the usual argument advanced in favor of affirmative action, as it is entirely novel to me.
- jeb 16y ago
  It may be novel to you, but that's the point of affirmative action. It's not to help a particular person, it's to help an entire segment of society.
  - jerf 16y ago
    The argument being advanced for diversity is around building a diverse campus environment and helping out disadvantaged individuals. You do not hear about it helping out races. For one thing, even if that's a goal it would be impolitic to outright admit the point of affirmative action is to help out races; advocates of affirmative action have a hard enough time dodging accusations that the whole process is fundamentally racist as it is (and it's getting harder every year).
    - jeb 16y ago
      The concept of affirmative action has never been about individuals. It's a RACE-based correction for RACE-based discrimination. I don't know what makes you think it's not racial. Your solution for the societal crisis you face is to keep those at the bottom at the bottom, just so that your kids will have a 0.002% higher chance of entering one of a few colleges. You have a large underclass of people whose parents were raised in institutionalised dicrimination. These people are the lowest caste of your society. There is a policy in place that favours a very few of these people to get into spots they would not otherwise get into. Without this, the status-quo would continue to exist. The problem is this - the status quo is pretty bad. Blacks are less educated, less likely to get jobs, need more welfare, have higher crime rate. To me, getting more into college seems like it would solve some of those problems.
      - jerf 16y ago
        If you can't see a distinction between a race and the members of the race, I would contend you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. I recognize this isn't the politically correct solution and I don't care. "Your solution" Wrong. I have not advocated a solution, only the proper questions. I don't question the arguments. I question their temporal relevancy. So let me try asking you a question that nobody else seems to be able to answer: When are we done? What concrete criterion do we use to figure out when to shut off the counter-racism?
        jeb 16y ago
        How about when the poverty rate of blacks in your country is not 25%? Or when the average black family has perhaps 80% or 90% of the income of the average white family, up from the current 60%?

by jeb 16y ago

jerf 16y ago

You may believe that, it may be a good argument. But it isn't the usual argument advanced in favor of affirmative action, as it is entirely novel to me.

jeb 16y ago
It may be novel to you, but that's the point of affirmative action. It's not to help a particular person, it's to help an entire segment of society.
- jerf 16y ago
  The argument being advanced for diversity is around building a diverse campus environment and helping out disadvantaged individuals. You do not hear about it helping out races. For one thing, even if that's a goal it would be impolitic to outright admit the point of affirmative action is to help out races; advocates of affirmative action have a hard enough time dodging accusations that the whole process is fundamentally racist as it is (and it's getting harder every year).
  - jeb 16y ago
    The concept of affirmative action has never been about individuals. It's a RACE-based correction for RACE-based discrimination. I don't know what makes you think it's not racial. Your solution for the societal crisis you face is to keep those at the bottom at the bottom, just so that your kids will have a 0.002% higher chance of entering one of a few colleges. You have a large underclass of people whose parents were raised in institutionalised dicrimination. These people are the lowest caste of your society. There is a policy in place that favours a very few of these people to get into spots they would not otherwise get into. Without this, the status-quo would continue to exist. The problem is this - the status quo is pretty bad. Blacks are less educated, less likely to get jobs, need more welfare, have higher crime rate. To me, getting more into college seems like it would solve some of those problems.
    - jerf 16y ago
      If you can't see a distinction between a race and the members of the race, I would contend you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. I recognize this isn't the politically correct solution and I don't care. "Your solution" Wrong. I have not advocated a solution, only the proper questions. I don't question the arguments. I question their temporal relevancy. So let me try asking you a question that nobody else seems to be able to answer: When are we done? What concrete criterion do we use to figure out when to shut off the counter-racism?
      - jeb 16y ago
        How about when the poverty rate of blacks in your country is not 25%? Or when the average black family has perhaps 80% or 90% of the income of the average white family, up from the current 60%?