5 ms·

When the topic of Backup for Civilization comes up, instead of Wall-E, I tend to think of Elysium, i.e. the backup option is only for the wealthy, leaving the r

• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• QAPereo 9y ago
  At this point, no amount of money will save you, we need Earth for food at the very least. That may change, but not soon.
• kbenson 9y ago
  > the backup option is only for the wealthy, leaving the rest in a worse state. Like most technology, it flows from the rich to the poor eventually as it becomes cheaper. The important part you omitted is that it leaves the rest in a worse relative state. Their absolute state is no worse, and likely better. Arguing against a backup for civilization (or more appropriately, a backup for the species) because it will be used by the rich is like arguing against a cure for cancer because the rich will benefit before anyone else. In the end, a cure existing still drastically increases the chance the poor might be able to make use of it, from zero to some non-zero amount. This is all also ignoring the fact that when it comes to species level propagation and survival, I would rather Hitler and his closest Nazi associates makes it off world sustainably in the event of a species level disaster than nobody. My commitment to making sure Humanity survives is much more than my commitment to ensuring we are a caring and accepting civilization. We can rediscover valuing life, but once we're gone, the chances we are coming back are essentially nil.
  • ribosometronome 9y ago
    Why is humanity's survival important?
    • kbenson 9y ago
      It's important for the exact same reason you're able to ask that question. Without humanity, who asks why? Humanity is, to the best of our knowledge, the best and possibly only chance of increasing understanding of the universe. I care about that, as well as about our species generally in what is likely an evolved and chemically reinforced way. At some point that may be less true, and I would care less (but would still care). At a meta level, if you truly don't care about the survival of your species (even if only through the survival of your own relatives and loved ones), you're an evolutionary dead end.
      • wellboy 9y ago
        Survival of humanity isn't important universally. The universe doesn't care. But it's the most important thing for humans.
        • ars 9y ago
          > The universe doesn't care. And that's exactly why it's important. > Survival of humanity isn't important universally. Unless there is something there that cares about it, there is little reason for the universe to exist - nothing would know the difference. Which is why it actually is important universally. > But it's the most important thing for humans. No, it's more important for the universe to have humans, than it is for humans to have a universe. If the universe did not have humans (or another sentients) then it might as well not exist. AKA: Humans super important to the universe. If humans did not have a universe, then humans would not exist. If humans did not exist then nothing is important to them.
          • wellboy 9y ago
            Why are you saying that the universe might not exist if it were not for humans. I have a few questions for you. 1. What if humans become extinct in a few hundred years? Should the universe then not exist anymore and make more lifeforms? 2. What if there are billions of other "intelligent" species in the universe? Why should the universe care about one specific species that is actually not that great, and very destructive. 3. What if this universe is just an experiment, a petridish and we are just one out of billions of parameters. 4. What if our kind of intelligence is really not that impressive, what if intelligence of dark matter entities, which we don't know about anything is much more powerful, what if even that is not that impressive? Again, the universe doesn't care. It is not a person, it doesn't have a plan, it is neutral, unless we met our "gods" one day. Humans are just a blip among much larger things that are happening in the universe.
• mabbo 9y ago
  Elysium isn't about space stations, it's about wealthy enclaves. Those already exist, and our society is becoming more stratified every year. There's no need for the very rich to leave the planet for that. Backing up the species is about keeping a strong diverse stock of human genetics and knowledge somewhere safe from whatever harm might befall the earth. Under those terms, I for one do not care whether it's rich people or poor people. I doubt I'll be in the 0.00001% of the population who are part of it regardless.
• cpeterso 9y ago
  For another take on backing on human civilization, check out Neal Stephenson's novel Seveneves. Humanity evacuates 1500 people to orbit as moon debris decimates all remaining life on the earth's surface. As a story, it's pretty dry, but as a thought experiment, it's very interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seveneves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seveneves
  • prawn 9y ago
    I wouldn't call it dry. I thought the writing style was a little juvenile, but the ideas are generally interesting as you said, the descriptions of technology are fairly detailed and I thought of it as a rollicking adventure by the end. Dry implies flat and drab to me. If anything, I think Stephenson's flaw as a writer is that he comes across as an excited boy who just wants to tell you everything he's been researching, rather than show you naturally with a well-written story.
  • hossbeast 9y ago
    I was totally engaged by Seveneves, right up until the time jump, at which point I completely lost interest. The hard rain stuff at the beginning is totally fascinating.
    • aedron 9y ago
      Same experience. It was like it was written by two different authors (one fantastic and one awful).