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The problem that stun guns are designed to address does exist. There is a place in use-of-force continuum between shouting and shooting. You can't really requir
by pps43 9y ago
The problem that stun guns are designed to address does exist. There is a place in use-of-force continuum between shouting and shooting. You can't really require police officers to get into fistfights, especially when they are at a disadvantage because of weight, age, gender, etc.
Like any technology, stun guns can be misused, and oftentimes are. It's important to recognize this problem and address it, through raising awareness, improving training, etc. If you simply take stun guns away, the police will simply shoot people with real guns more.
- adrianpike 9y ago> when they are at a disadvantage because of weight, age, gender, etc. Private security, club bouncers, bodyguards, all seem to be trained and conditioned for physical advantage, but I've seen a lot of out of shape officers, at least in the US. I wonder if we're leaning on force equalizers too much, or if it's just something that's happened organically.
- RonanTheGrey 9y agoPrivate security, bouncers, etc. do not have the legitimization of the force of state behind them. Police are "allowed" to be violent because it is the state being violent, not a privately employed individual. That changes the ballgame significantly. Should it? A totally different question. Does it? Incontrovertible.
- jMyles 9y agoI agree that this is the case, at least in the mindset of everyone involved. But then how do we reconcile the fact that, at least in common law societies, it is not the case de jurie? If the laws surrounding this are different from the reality, haven't we lost our claim to be a society of laws and not of men?
- RonanTheGrey 9y agoThat's a big question, isn't it.. and I think in part, the answer is yes. When we make exceptions to the law, even if convenient at the time, that's exactly what we lose. If we make exception after exception until the law is a watered down toothless goat, well...
- jMyles 9y agoCan you give me (or via comment or a link) an example of a hypothetical scenario in which force is required, but unarmed force won't do?
- sokoloff 9y agoA combative 6'2", 215# body-builder high on PCP or methamphetamine, acting aggressively in a public place. If that's not enough, give him a bat or a knife as well.
- Zigurd 9y agoThis is an example of a lazy argument for not being taken from a real-world case that isn't an outlier, and one that is compatible with the image of police portrayed on cop shows, so people are conditioned to glom onto it. It also ignores cases where private security has to deal with violent drunks (not an outlier at all) without tasers. And this is how poor police performance in the US continues to get a pass.
- sokoloff 9y agoGP called for a hypothetical example. I provided. I'm sorry that you feel that's lazy. Would you share with us how you'd prefer the police to handle that situation?
- pjc50 9y agoThe UK police would handle it with a combination of CS spray and side-handled batons. https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/files/disclosure-logs/2014_218_foi2014514185_use_of_force_policy2.pdf https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/file... actually provides a worked example, including the paperwork you need to fill out after whacking someone in the head.
- Zigurd 9y agoI explained that by way of pointing out the omission of addressing how private security manages to do their job without sometimes fatal electric torture devices.