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So true. Most people just don't care. I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fa

So true. Most people just don't care. I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fall. Check their financials, buy the stock if it looks good, then wait a few months for it to all blow over. My most recent was Wells Fargo during their opening accounts scandal. Bought early Oct, Sold late Jan. 20.06% profit. There were so many headlines calling for boycotts of Wells, and to teach them a lesson with your wallet. In the long run people just don't give a damn. For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient."

icebraining 9y ago
Even those who care, might not have real alternatives. The real benefit I see from Uber is exactly that: opening the markets up so we can avoid the bad actors. But for now, many of us still only have the choice between "new and corrupt" and "old and corrupt". Thankfully, more competition is coming, after Uber broken the barrier down. (And yes, I know other places already had good working systems. Good for you, doesn't help me, though)
- monksy 9y ago
  How's Via and Sidecar doing?
  - tmh79 9y ago
    sidecar shutdown long ago and via sold to an israeli company
will_brown 9y ago
>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues and concerns (because 1st amendment is a limit on governmental power, not private entities). No doubt boycotts are hard, and I'm not sure there was ever a time in history where anyone ever felt real change was easy, or ever a time where the people seeking change felt others/the world cared. From MLK's quote "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing". To Gandhi's, "be the change you wish to see it this world." Maybe above all people just need to be inspired, and some historical perspective of what people can accomplish working together. And as disheartening as a comment likes yours is, it's truthful, and I personally find it motivating and inspiring. I guess it's sort of like telling someone something can't be done and that being the catalyst for action. I'm pretty motivated at this time to create an organizational platform for boycotts in a crowdsourcing-esq style without need for funding. If you don't mind, I guess like a sort of prelaunch feedback, what would it take for someone like you, willing to profit on bad corporate behavior, to instead become a leader for change?
- djcapelis 9y ago
  I created my HN account 2884 days ago and this comment is the first time in a long time I’ve felt this forum has had some serious conversations about the conflicts between ethics and profits. I am so glad to see people questioning the means leading to financial ends. Thank you for directly bringing the dynamics of how financial incentives are impacting the reality we live in into the conversation. I sorely hope the person you responded to manages not to feel too attacked and gives a frank and truthful answer on where their line is with respect to not wanting to profit off a corporate scandal. It is going to be important to understand. Activism is going to have a tough road of making an impact on corporations if there’s no market response or impact to help dissuade when companies engage in immoral, unethical or downright bad dealings.
  - necessity 9y ago
    Except Uber didn't do anything deserving of a boycott.
    - will_brown 9y ago
      May be, but may be not. So I'll take a purely Florida example, in many counties Uber was operating illegally, to the extent they trained drivers how to evade police detection, in some instances they even recruited drivers out of counties that they were operating legally to counties they would be operating illegal (unbeknownst to drivers) resulting in the arrest of drivers (criminal records). In Miami Dade county for example, if you were to have been pulled over you would have gotten two civil tickets resulting in over $2,000 of fines, a third citation converts the charge to criminal charges, Uber would fire driver for not evading authorities effectively enough. Uber also had a secret program that in part helped them break the law by denying rides to users suspected of working with law enforcement (called Greyball). Another issue is Uber provided a lawyer for drivers (not an actual traffic criminal lawyer, but a Uber lobbiest), in legal terms that is a conflict of interest, plus very few of these fines have been paid after years and last I checked Uber (drivers) still owe millions to the county. Again I'm not saying this is a boycott I would pursue, but perhaps it's worthy of discussion, and at minimum I could see boycotts getting Uber to take responsibility and pay these fines. Here is a link that includes a copy of the Uber email instructing drivers to more effectively break the law: https://uberpeople.net/threads/welcome-to-miami-international-heres-a-2-020-ticket-for-operating-an-unlicensed-vehicle-for-hire.2618/page-6 https://uberpeople.net/threads/welcome-to-miami-internationa...
vermontdevil 9y ago
Remember the movement to get out of big banks and move to credit unions. Same thing - all the furor died down over time. Doubt there was a seismic shift.
emmab 9y ago
> I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fall. Check their financials, buy the stock if it looks good, then wait a few months for it to all blow over. Why aren't there any financial firms doing this and consistently beating the market?
trustfundbaby 9y ago
Thanks for that tip. Very clever, noticed it too, just never capitalized.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

icebraining 9y ago

Even those who care, might not have real alternatives. The real benefit I see from Uber is exactly that: opening the markets up so we can avoid the bad actors. But for now, many of us still only have the choice between "new and corrupt" and "old and corrupt". Thankfully, more competition is coming, after Uber broken the barrier down. (And yes, I know other places already had good working systems. Good for you, doesn't help me, though)

monksy 9y ago
How's Via and Sidecar doing?
- tmh79 9y ago
  sidecar shutdown long ago and via sold to an israeli company

will_brown 9y ago

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues and concerns (because 1st amendment is a limit on governmental power, not private entities). No doubt boycotts are hard, and I'm not sure there was ever a time in history where anyone ever felt real change was easy, or ever a time where the people seeking change felt others/the world cared. From MLK's quote "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing". To Gandhi's, "be the change you wish to see it this world." Maybe above all people just need to be inspired, and some historical perspective of what people can accomplish working together. And as disheartening as a comment likes yours is, it's truthful, and I personally find it motivating and inspiring. I guess it's sort of like telling someone something can't be done and that being the catalyst for action. I'm pretty motivated at this time to create an organizational platform for boycotts in a crowdsourcing-esq style without need for funding. If you don't mind, I guess like a sort of prelaunch feedback, what would it take for someone like you, willing to profit on bad corporate behavior, to instead become a leader for change?

djcapelis 9y ago
I created my HN account 2884 days ago and this comment is the first time in a long time I’ve felt this forum has had some serious conversations about the conflicts between ethics and profits. I am so glad to see people questioning the means leading to financial ends. Thank you for directly bringing the dynamics of how financial incentives are impacting the reality we live in into the conversation. I sorely hope the person you responded to manages not to feel too attacked and gives a frank and truthful answer on where their line is with respect to not wanting to profit off a corporate scandal. It is going to be important to understand. Activism is going to have a tough road of making an impact on corporations if there’s no market response or impact to help dissuade when companies engage in immoral, unethical or downright bad dealings.
- necessity 9y ago
  Except Uber didn't do anything deserving of a boycott.
  - will_brown 9y ago
    May be, but may be not. So I'll take a purely Florida example, in many counties Uber was operating illegally, to the extent they trained drivers how to evade police detection, in some instances they even recruited drivers out of counties that they were operating legally to counties they would be operating illegal (unbeknownst to drivers) resulting in the arrest of drivers (criminal records). In Miami Dade county for example, if you were to have been pulled over you would have gotten two civil tickets resulting in over $2,000 of fines, a third citation converts the charge to criminal charges, Uber would fire driver for not evading authorities effectively enough. Uber also had a secret program that in part helped them break the law by denying rides to users suspected of working with law enforcement (called Greyball). Another issue is Uber provided a lawyer for drivers (not an actual traffic criminal lawyer, but a Uber lobbiest), in legal terms that is a conflict of interest, plus very few of these fines have been paid after years and last I checked Uber (drivers) still owe millions to the county. Again I'm not saying this is a boycott I would pursue, but perhaps it's worthy of discussion, and at minimum I could see boycotts getting Uber to take responsibility and pay these fines. Here is a link that includes a copy of the Uber email instructing drivers to more effectively break the law: https://uberpeople.net/threads/welcome-to-miami-international-heres-a-2-020-ticket-for-operating-an-unlicensed-vehicle-for-hire.2618/page-6 https://uberpeople.net/threads/welcome-to-miami-internationa...

vermontdevil 9y ago

Remember the movement to get out of big banks and move to credit unions. Same thing - all the furor died down over time. Doubt there was a seismic shift.

emmab 9y ago

> I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fall. Check their financials, buy the stock if it looks good, then wait a few months for it to all blow over. Why aren't there any financial firms doing this and consistently beating the market?

trustfundbaby 9y ago

Thanks for that tip. Very clever, noticed it too, just never capitalized.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]