4 ms·

I grant you that this example is contrived, but I'd play poker very differently if that was the case!

by fiter 9y ago

evanlivingston 9y ago
Word, but I think it underlines a real problem. For some people with low chances of losing in the game (trust fund, property, stable family, no prior convictions, etc) life can be a game about maximizing gains. For others it's toothe and nail. When the rules of the game are historically set by people who are already too stable to really lose, it's the "weaker" players who get exploited.
- adjkant 9y ago
  I would add to this that making the system fairer will inherently decrease the chances for the higher starting players. That is because they had a higher chance to start with. The lowering of their chances is not a bad thing, it is perfectly just. But it's hard to get those players to accept that when they are starting from that position of power.
- fiter 9y ago
  When you phrase it that way, it sounds like you think it's hopeless to have a system with objectively fair rules. Notwithstanding the probably uninspired resulting college environment, I think it would be hypothetically fair to admit people solely based on their standardized test scores without any other consideration. The admission standard while somewhat arbitrary would be clear, such that anyone who wants to get admitted could work towards it. If someone is provided with a substandard K-12 education, it would make it harder to work towards admission. In that case, maybe we should look into the K-12 environment. Maybe it turns out that it's not as much the K-12 environment, and it's actually home life. Maybe home life issues are related to incarceration or maybe they're hereditary. I think this is what an effort to root-cause the problem would look like. When you find the root causes, then you could provide help for anyone with that root cause problem.
  - evanlivingston 9y ago
    I do think a fair system can't exist, but I'm very fearful of moving towards a libertarian meritocratic system that fails to consider many of the issue you bring up. There's a guy up above going hard on genetic IQ differences making a nuanced claim that higher IQs are more valuable and thus deserving of more merit. Is that a fair system?
    - evanlivingston 9y ago
      Can exist
      - fiter 9y ago
        I see where you're coming from. I can get on board with that; we can address root causes before needing to remove these fixes/patches. Though I think we should keep both things in mind; perhaps the day can be celebrated when we can remove affirmative action programs.

I grant you that this example is contrived, but I'd play poker very differently if that was the case!

by fiter 9y ago

I grant you that this example is contrived, but I'd play poker very differently if that was the case!

Word, but I think it underlines a real problem. For some people with low chances of losing in the game (trust fund, property, stable family, no prior convictions, etc) life can be a game about maximizing gains. For others it's toothe and nail. When the rules of the game are historically set by people who are already too stable to really lose, it's the "weaker" players who get exploited.

adjkant 9y ago
I would add to this that making the system fairer will inherently decrease the chances for the higher starting players. That is because they had a higher chance to start with. The lowering of their chances is not a bad thing, it is perfectly just. But it's hard to get those players to accept that when they are starting from that position of power.
fiter 9y ago
When you phrase it that way, it sounds like you think it's hopeless to have a system with objectively fair rules. Notwithstanding the probably uninspired resulting college environment, I think it would be hypothetically fair to admit people solely based on their standardized test scores without any other consideration. The admission standard while somewhat arbitrary would be clear, such that anyone who wants to get admitted could work towards it. If someone is provided with a substandard K-12 education, it would make it harder to work towards admission. In that case, maybe we should look into the K-12 environment. Maybe it turns out that it's not as much the K-12 environment, and it's actually home life. Maybe home life issues are related to incarceration or maybe they're hereditary. I think this is what an effort to root-cause the problem would look like. When you find the root causes, then you could provide help for anyone with that root cause problem.
- evanlivingston 9y ago
  I do think a fair system can't exist, but I'm very fearful of moving towards a libertarian meritocratic system that fails to consider many of the issue you bring up. There's a guy up above going hard on genetic IQ differences making a nuanced claim that higher IQs are more valuable and thus deserving of more merit. Is that a fair system?
  - evanlivingston 9y ago
    Can exist
    - fiter 9y ago
      I see where you're coming from. I can get on board with that; we can address root causes before needing to remove these fixes/patches. Though I think we should keep both things in mind; perhaps the day can be celebrated when we can remove affirmative action programs.