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Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings
- askafriend 9y agoOf course Uber sees an uptick in bookings. None of the people using the service in almost 200 countries worldwide are tuned into the daily drama of Silicon Valley. Normal people want to get from point A to point B in the most comfortable, efficient, cheap way possible. If that means Uber then so be it. If that means Taxis then so be it. If that means Didi Chuxing then so be it. It just turns out that Uber is well positioned and offers a compelling service in many countries around the world and so enjoys the resulting growing business. I don't mean to downplay the importance of the events transpiring around and within Uber - they are unprecedented and important to varying degrees. But most normal people won't even have a cursory understanding of those events when it's all said and done. The world is vast and people are busy.
- QAPereo 9y agoBy the same token the issues which Uber faces really have very little to do with publicity and everything to do with operating at a substantial and constant loss, all bet on a dream of automation which is probably decades away. Uber with drivers simply doesn't work as a profitable business, and the self driving cars they need are simply not going to be here in time to save them. The rest is more or less academic.
- booleandilemma 9y agoDoesn't Amazon operate on a loss? Doesn't it not matter as long as there is a long term potential for profit?
- tinbad 9y agoPeople have said the same about FB and Amazon. I agree that they wont be able to stay at loss for ever, however once the cheap cash runs out there's nothing stopping them from bumping up the rates a bit and/or growing less aggressively. Yes, they will loose x% of users, but the ones that stay will be served at a profit. At this point, Uber is likely too big to fail. Anecdotally, I have used Uber from the beginning and never even bothered to install anything else just because there was no compelling reason to, I don't see that be different for many users.
- jmckib 9y agoI would recommend installing Lyft as well if it's available in your area. Depending on where I am, usually one service or the other is cheaper, sometimes significantly.
- AOsborn 9y agoFair viewpoint. I agree with you that this looks like the longer term business plan. However, multiple rounds of investors disagree and have come to the table and bet their cash. This will be interesting to watch unfold. To extend the runway will cost an increasing amount. However, as the investment from influential investors increases so does the ability of Uber to influence government policy and actually push through self-driving.
- Z1nfandel 9y agoSo true. Most people just don't care. I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fall. Check their financials, buy the stock if it looks good, then wait a few months for it to all blow over. My most recent was Wells Fargo during their opening accounts scandal. Bought early Oct, Sold late Jan. 20.06% profit. There were so many headlines calling for boycotts of Wells, and to teach them a lesson with your wallet. In the long run people just don't give a damn. For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient."
- icebraining 9y agoEven those who care, might not have real alternatives. The real benefit I see from Uber is exactly that: opening the markets up so we can avoid the bad actors. But for now, many of us still only have the choice between "new and corrupt" and "old and corrupt". Thankfully, more competition is coming, after Uber broken the barrier down. (And yes, I know other places already had good working systems. Good for you, doesn't help me, though)
- will_brown 9y ago>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues and concerns (because 1st amendment is a limit on governmental power, not private entities). No doubt boycotts are hard, and I'm not sure there was ever a time in history where anyone ever felt real change was easy, or ever a time where the people seeking change felt others/the world cared. From MLK's quote "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing". To Gandhi's, "be the change you wish to see it this world." Maybe above all people just need to be inspired, and some historical perspective of what people can accomplish working together. And as disheartening as a comment likes yours is, it's truthful, and I personally find it motivating and inspiring. I guess it's sort of like telling someone something can't be done and that being the catalyst for action. I'm pretty motivated at this time to create an organizational platform for boycotts in a crowdsourcing-esq style without need for funding. If you don't mind, I guess like a sort of prelaunch feedback, what would it take for someone like you, willing to profit on bad corporate behavior, to instead become a leader for change?
- BadassFractal 9y agoAlso not to downplay the issues with sexism in tech, but the level of uproar is somewhat reminiscent of the Ellen Pao situation and how much Twitter/HN/SF exist in an echo chamber. I'm sorry I don't want to march on the streets because a group of billionaires are acting like total assholes towards an aspiring billionaire trying to play the game of thrones with that court. The rest of us have-nots have real problems to worry about. Cry me a fucking river.
- icebraining 9y agoThe Uber boycott is not about the ousting of Travis, it started before that, back in January, after the kerfuffle surrounding the infamous executive order, the taxi union's decision to refuse to pick up drivers at the airport, and Uber's tweet that they had disabled surge pricing. It then gained more steam after allegations of having a cutthroat workplace, accusations of sexism and sexual harassment (over which they fired 20 employees after an internal investigation), and allegedly colluding to rip off Waymo. Oh, and the accusations of misleading drivers, over which they ended up paying $20M to the FTC.
- fusiongyro 9y agoThey actually made a joke to this effect about Uber and Lyft on the last episode of Difficult People.
- revelation 9y agoThat might be true but it still got the CEO fired. It's not quite totally inconsequential.
- jandrese 9y agoOne thing that I've wondered about with Uber is if they're so horrible to their drivers, why don't those drivers switch to Lyft? Does Uber really have that many more passengers? Or is the almost constant barrage of negative stories about Uber part of some attack campaign and the majority of them are overblown? Maybe there is a Boy Who Cried Wolf factor to the negative Uber press?
- inverse_pi 9y agohow do you know they're horrible to their drivers? AFAIK, they actually have more driver friendly features than Lyft
- LeoPanthera 9y agoI mostly use Lyft, and 95-99% of the drivers who pick me up work for both. So far, everyone single one I've asked has said they prefer Lyft.
- LeoPanthera 9y agoIn most places outside the US, Lyft does not operate.
- princeb 9y agoin these places, alternatives definitely exist. addison lee, hailo, ola, grab, didi, some traditional cab companies also have their own hailing app.
- philfrasty 9y ago„...drama of Silicon Valley...“ sounds like the Majority illusion applies to SV. [i] https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.03022 https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.03022
- ugh123 9y agoI'm tuned into the daily drama but really don't care. I want something reliable and quick. Lyft had a bug for a few months where they wouldn't accept my credit card anymore (no reason, just a generic system error). I've used Uber exclusively since.
- dogruck 9y agoYup. And United's business was unmarred after the Chicago PD violently removed a raving doctor from a flight. No surprises here.
- sjg007 9y agoThere is weird regulatory capture in these markets. Taxi cabs are universally bad. Black cars are better but have always been expensive and harder to use b/c of pre-booking. Hotels/Motels offer dubious over-priced quality. They hide behind no-refund policies and maintain in general poor standards. So I support airBnb, uber, and lyft b/c I'm tired of being ripped off.
- ghaff 9y ago>Black cars are better but have always been expensive and harder to use b/c of pre-booking They also offer a consistent experience and pre-booking is often a feature. I use black cars to go back and forth to my home airport way more often than I use Uber/taxis/etc. when traveling. >Hotels/Motels offer dubious over-priced quality. Again consistency and reliability. I don't generally love the chains but I also don't have complaints about them which is what I care about most of the time.
- dopeboy 9y agoHere in the east bay, I've gotten 50% off in the past two weeks in Uber. So hell yeah take my business. Thanks VCs!
- paxy 9y agoSame. I wonder if they timed it for this very report..
- synaesthesisx 9y agoYup - they've been heavily subsidizing rides recently (even more so than usual) to pull booking numbers up!
- jessaustin 9y agoSuddenly the headline seems less amazing...
- malandrew 9y agoLosses as a percent of gross bookings: Uber: 8% Lyft: 13.5% Lyft is the one buying marketshare, not Uber.
- justicezyx 9y agoBoth are buying, right?
- tmh79 9y agosort of, but lyft's market share costs 50% more than uber's market share
- MuffinFlavored 9y agoWhy?
- bantunes 9y agoIn Victorian times, people didn't mind paying more for a shirt if it meant it was child labor free. These days, nobody cares if a company is a hotbed of discrimination and shitty practices if it means cheaper rides and an easy to use app. Same goes for Facebook, Google, Amazon - nobody cares.
- tanilama 9y agoI think comparing Uber employees who get paid over 100k+ to child labor is quite ridiculous
- ProAm 9y agoThey are comparing it to Uber the company, not the drivers or employees.
- __abc 9y agoNone of my friends/family outside tech have any idea of what is/has been going on inside Uber. A bit unfair to say "they don't care".
- bantunes 9y agoEveryone that I've told still doesn't care.
- odessacubbage 9y agoi think the long and sordid history of industry would suggest nobody has cared for a very long time. when it comes right down to it, moral consumerism is a luxury good.
- necessity 9y agoAre you comparing child label to a a shitty corporate environment? And where did you get "hotbed for discrimination" from?
- wccrawford 9y agoThere were plenty of people who minded then, and there are plenty of people who don't mind now.
- bbdbdbdbsbwhs 9y agoFrankly the outrage against Uber makes me more likely to use the service. Before it became politically incorrect to mention Uber, I was entirely impartial. I'm sure that I'm not the only one.
- lr4444lr 9y agoWell, it's probably just as politically incorrect to let your post with its rebellious attitude stand with positive vote count, so I upvoted it.
- marlokk 9y ago+1 thank you uber for triggering the entertaining outrage
- ceejayoz 9y agoDo you use this approach with everything? "Poop tastes bad." "How PC, I'll eat some!"
- cxzdyn 9y agoAre you more likely to use Google products now too?
- nebabyte 9y agoYou sound like someone who angrily voted for trump.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoThings need to get worse before they get better?
- rconti 9y agoI normally agree with this sentiment. In this case, in my opinion, the Uber situation was so inexcusable that I took my business elsewhere. Me, and not many other people, it seems.
- furioussloth 9y ago
- VikingCoder 9y agoDear Lyft, you're screwing up your chance. When Uber started to have a bunch of scandal, I tried to switch to Lyft. I really did. But, stuck at a hospital after an emergency room visit, trying to get home at 10pm, I sat there for 45 minutes, watching a driver go from 4 minutes away to 5 minutes away to 8 minutes away, then no driver, then a new driver is 4 minutes away, then 4 minutes away, then 5 minutes away, then no driver, then a new driver is 12 minutes away, then no driver... Come on. Raise the price if you have to, but making me wait while these drivers decided I was too far away? Screw that, and screw you, Lyft.
- ben_jones 9y agoGiven your profile information this seems like an authenticate story, but does anyone else read this and think of the various misinformation campaigns by Uber like when they booked fake rides to waste the time of Lyft drivers?
- saberworks 9y agoLyft is screwing up in more ways than one. I only use these services when I'm out traveling. I switched to Lyft because a couple of drivers in Honolulu mentioned that they liked Lyft better. Fine, didn't matter to me. Until months later when the Lyft app started spamming me with notifications of ride credits and it wouldn't stop. Looking at their support information, the only way to get these spam notifications to stop is to completely block notifications for that app. But of course, if I do that, the notifications for actual ride information will be blocked, too. Deleted the app, will use Uber instead.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y agoI guess this brings up the question: Is uber succeeding in its goal? Their value prop is that they can monopolize the taxi business, maybe they're actually pulling it off. Could explain why Lyft is starting to lag.
- AOsborn 9y agoI think Uber is succeeding. But the goal is less obvious: burn cash to push through regulatory changes, loosening up the transportation market in preparation for self-driving taxis and logistics. Imagine a new startup trying to convince you to switch your taxi for a new self-driving car? No way. But an entrenched vendor that you have trusted for 5+ years? Ok, maybe next trip I'll accept your discount and try one of those self-driving cars.
- sremani 9y agoThe value proposition of Uber is so good that with an empty C-level suites they are pretty much running on an auto-pilot of sort. Honestly, this is a tremendous feat. In that case, they should get their CEO from inside rather than outside.
- leggomylibro 9y agoIt's only a tremendous feat until they run out of cheap VC money to burn. They lost $650 million this quarter.
- olivermarks 9y ago'Uber, mired in corporate scandals, sees an uptick in PR spend (again)'
- tmh79 9y agothis isn't PR spend, the author has been a thorn in uber's side through all the scandals and broken a bunch of big stories. Follow him on twitter @mikeissac
- olivermarks 9y agoFair, but any publicity is good publicity...new leadership launch pr blitz/new leaf turned/lessons learned etc will launch in the fall...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- ex3ndr 9y agoThis remembers me how in Russia possible investors "test" local social networks. They make a scandal, ask the police to start an investigation and so on. TV, Radio, whole internet discuss this. In a month someone will buy shares in the company.
- abritinthebay 9y agoFor me it’s because Lyft continues to get dramatically worse. I’d love to use it more (and I hear drivers prefer it) but between the app UI being so poor, booking taking longer, frequent cancellations by drivers, etc... I only check it second if there are no Uber drivers around. It’s a shame as I really like parts of it more but the overall experience has always been worse for me
- tluyben2 9y agoI liked (and still like them in UK/NL/TH/US) Uber; it was more convenient and nicer than cabs. Cabbies in the countries I frequent are downright rude, their cars filthy and beaten; Uber was a welcome change. But in most of them now they are forbidden or mostly forbidden or on their way out. Some companies made their own horrible apps which half of the time do not work (in Barcelona I tried them all and none of them managed to get a ride, one of them simply crashed at startup etc) or are 'old' as in you have type a time and date when you want a ride and cannot order for 'now'. I have not seen one where the gps actually works so you see if your ride is actually coming and ofcourse, because usually they are made by a big taxi corp, no ratings, so back to rude, smelly drivers in crap cars. In HKG there seem to be issues, the prices went up and drivers often cancel (more so than in other countries I noticed); I do not think it should be possible for a driver to just cancel because they find the trip too short. I should be able to rate them for that. But still more convenient than cabs who you wave over, tell the location and then they drive off for the same reason. Another gripe is payments; in some countries payment card A works, in some B works etc. Paypal als payment doesn't work in Thailand. Still, while annoying, it is better than 'only cash mate' that often happens in cabs. Anyway more competitors would be good ; any way to get all rides on an acceptable level. In countries like Spain where they now are forbidden, I was happy to see them in hopes they would fix the issues with cabs in general (especially in the south) but nope, it just returned to the comfortable bad behavior of always. Last weeks ride from Malaga airport had a cabdriver loudly burp garlic for 20 minutes. Can only complain by filling a form no-one will ever look at.
- vectorEQ 9y agono one care about drama. just cheap rides home. good buisness model.