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It has nothing to do with the language, there were other serverside javascript frameworks before node; they didn't take off (e.g. Narwhal). Node's success has

It has nothing to do with the language, there were other serverside javascript frameworks before node; they didn't take off (e.g. Narwhal). Node's success has everything to do with the environment itself in combination with the language. The node runtime, the associated stdlib, and most open source/3rd party modules have been written for a non-blocking runtime from day #1. The same stuff can be achieved in plenty of other languages/stacks (e.g. Python + Twisted), but you have much more work to do validating that every single library you use plays nice with async io, sometimes you have more event loop housekeeping responsibilities, etc...

gaius 9y ago
Node's success has everything to do with the environment itself in combination with the language. Let's be honest: it is nothing to do with either of those and purely a matter of fashion. In a couple of years at most there will be a new new thing and everything will revert to version 0.1, keeping everyone busy but making no actual progress. Gotta soak up those CPU cycles the hardware people are giving us somehow right? Can't let the users get any of that speed for themselves!
- coldtea 9y ago
  >Let's be honest: it is nothing to do with either of those and purely a matter of fashion. Let's be honest: if you need "fashion" or "idiocy" etc to explain a trend in tech, you don't have an explanation. Your explanation wouldn't even explain why it was Node+JS that got to be "in fashion" and not something else from the 20000 options.
  - gaius 9y ago
    Your explanation wouldn't even explain why it was Node+JS that got to be "in fashion" and not something else from the 20000 options That's the point. There is no explanation, other than the same reason that bellbottoms are in again this year. Or out, I don't actually know. We pretend like we're "engineers" or "scientists" but there's nothing objective about what we do...
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >That's the point. There is no explanation, other than the same reason that bellbottoms are in again this year. Or out, I don't actually know. You mean you can't come up with one. Because for me, which followed the scene for 20+ years, there is a perfect explanation.
      - gaius 9y ago
        which followed the scene for 20+ years I had a homepage in 1994. I've seen them all come and go. This one's no different.
        abritinthebay 9y ago
        Mhmmm 1994 here also. Your take is shallow, pointless, and meaningless. It’s as relevant as saying we don’t write apps in COBOL or Modula2 anymore.
      - RugnirViking 9y ago
        I have no horse in this race; Care to share the perfect explanation?
        jessaustin 9y ago
        Look upthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15090542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15090542
    - abritinthebay 9y ago
      Your personal lack of imagination and insight doesn’t mean there isn’t a reason (there are several, some extremely obvious).
- dasil003 9y ago
  You have it all backwards. Fashion is the reason you hate it, but before it was fashionable it was not. I get that you're bitter and angry, but you do yourself no service by sticking your head in the sand and willfully ignoring the forces that drive popularity. I'm frustrated that better stuff doesn't win in the market as well, but I've been a web developer 20 years and Node's appeal was pretty obvious and exactly as the GP states. Without that it would not have gained traction to become fashionable.
- vim_user 9y ago
  After two decades in this industry, I've come to the same conclusion. Developers may use logic in coding, but trend-wise, we're bunch of herds following whatever others are doing. We forget whatever lessons we learned previously whenever something new comes out. It's good to see there are others who see insanity in it as well.
  - fundabulousrIII 9y ago
    I agree with this. I've seen the same but the core problem is we don't learn from others mistakes: we prefer to rely on our own tool-making skills to demonstrate increased facility while making similar mistakes. The thing missing in developers that I have decried over and over in this devop/agile movement is that SAs had discipline and an ordered idea and that developers exist to perturb the norm to better effect. The two ideas are not readily reconcilable.
  - kolanos 9y ago
    There is a logic to following trends, but it has nothing to do with the problems being solved and everything to do with remaining relevant in the workforce.
thehardsphere 9y ago
And nobody really wanted to do these message passing single threaded event loops in other languages, because they could just learn how to use threads instead. The real innovation that the Node environment and the Javascript language offered is one of marketing to developers who did not know better. Because there were no I/O paradigms in Javascript, one could be created to support this way of doing things, and there was no competing paradigm that people could point to in Javascript to say "Why would I do this when I could just use threads? It's not that hard." With that out of the way, the floodgates opened, because once the first few people started adopting it because they did not understand threads, it was only a matter of time when "front end" people adopted it, because they did not know any languages other than Javascript. And thus, the current fad was born.

gaius 9y ago

Node's success has everything to do with the environment itself in combination with the language. Let's be honest: it is nothing to do with either of those and purely a matter of fashion. In a couple of years at most there will be a new new thing and everything will revert to version 0.1, keeping everyone busy but making no actual progress. Gotta soak up those CPU cycles the hardware people are giving us somehow right? Can't let the users get any of that speed for themselves!

coldtea 9y ago
>Let's be honest: it is nothing to do with either of those and purely a matter of fashion. Let's be honest: if you need "fashion" or "idiocy" etc to explain a trend in tech, you don't have an explanation. Your explanation wouldn't even explain why it was Node+JS that got to be "in fashion" and not something else from the 20000 options.
- gaius 9y ago
  Your explanation wouldn't even explain why it was Node+JS that got to be "in fashion" and not something else from the 20000 options That's the point. There is no explanation, other than the same reason that bellbottoms are in again this year. Or out, I don't actually know. We pretend like we're "engineers" or "scientists" but there's nothing objective about what we do...
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >That's the point. There is no explanation, other than the same reason that bellbottoms are in again this year. Or out, I don't actually know. You mean you can't come up with one. Because for me, which followed the scene for 20+ years, there is a perfect explanation.
    - gaius 9y ago
      which followed the scene for 20+ years I had a homepage in 1994. I've seen them all come and go. This one's no different.
      - abritinthebay 9y ago
        Mhmmm 1994 here also. Your take is shallow, pointless, and meaningless. It’s as relevant as saying we don’t write apps in COBOL or Modula2 anymore.
    - RugnirViking 9y ago
      I have no horse in this race; Care to share the perfect explanation?
      - jessaustin 9y ago
        Look upthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15090542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15090542
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    Your personal lack of imagination and insight doesn’t mean there isn’t a reason (there are several, some extremely obvious).
dasil003 9y ago
You have it all backwards. Fashion is the reason you hate it, but before it was fashionable it was not. I get that you're bitter and angry, but you do yourself no service by sticking your head in the sand and willfully ignoring the forces that drive popularity. I'm frustrated that better stuff doesn't win in the market as well, but I've been a web developer 20 years and Node's appeal was pretty obvious and exactly as the GP states. Without that it would not have gained traction to become fashionable.
vim_user 9y ago
After two decades in this industry, I've come to the same conclusion. Developers may use logic in coding, but trend-wise, we're bunch of herds following whatever others are doing. We forget whatever lessons we learned previously whenever something new comes out. It's good to see there are others who see insanity in it as well.
- fundabulousrIII 9y ago
  I agree with this. I've seen the same but the core problem is we don't learn from others mistakes: we prefer to rely on our own tool-making skills to demonstrate increased facility while making similar mistakes. The thing missing in developers that I have decried over and over in this devop/agile movement is that SAs had discipline and an ordered idea and that developers exist to perturb the norm to better effect. The two ideas are not readily reconcilable.
- kolanos 9y ago
  There is a logic to following trends, but it has nothing to do with the problems being solved and everything to do with remaining relevant in the workforce.

thehardsphere 9y ago

And nobody really wanted to do these message passing single threaded event loops in other languages, because they could just learn how to use threads instead. The real innovation that the Node environment and the Javascript language offered is one of marketing to developers who did not know better. Because there were no I/O paradigms in Javascript, one could be created to support this way of doing things, and there was no competing paradigm that people could point to in Javascript to say "Why would I do this when I could just use threads? It's not that hard." With that out of the way, the floodgates opened, because once the first few people started adopting it because they did not understand threads, it was only a matter of time when "front end" people adopted it, because they did not know any languages other than Javascript. And thus, the current fad was born.