4 ms·

did the situation change since 2008?

mac01021 9y ago
All the stuff discussed in this talk is still basically the same. A few years ago they added the "core.async" package that provides something like the channel-based, CSP concurrency model that you find in the Go programming language. For many problems, this model is a better fit, but all the original concurrency stuff is there too.
fulafel 9y ago
STM is not sold as a headline concurrency feature anymore, apparently people prefer more traditional ways.
- Zak 9y ago
  I think the main thing is that the use case of modifying multiple references at the same time where it is critical that all changes take place at once is less common in idiomatic Clojure than people might have expected.
  - brandonbloom 9y ago
    Yeah, this is exactly it. Atoms were added as a cheaper alternative to Refs for when you didn't need transactions, just compare-and-swap. Turns out that atoms work well enough for even huge single-JVM systems, and are much simpler.
- Scarbutt 9y ago
  Since most applications use a database, is simpler to keep transactions only at one place, one source of truth.
  - platz 9y ago
    for 'business logic', sure, but things like updating/invalidating application caches, or other operations intrinsic to the application (the "non-functional requirements") that can't be isolated to the database.
juskrey 9y ago
They have added reducers with parallel folding, core.async and later added transducers and direct support of them to core.async too.
tosh 9y ago
Perhaps not directly related to 'Concurrency' but iirc ClojureScript got released in 2011 https://clojurescript.org https://clojurescript.org https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVooR-dF_Ag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVooR-dF_Ag (ClojureScript Release)
Blackthorn 9y ago
Not to this, but some things got added to the language: * core.async * pulsar Also a lot of the stuff just didn't turn out to be as common as anticipated when idiomatic Clojure is used.

All the stuff discussed in this talk is still basically the same. A few years ago they added the "core.async" package that provides something like the channel-based, CSP concurrency model that you find in the Go programming language. For many problems, this model is a better fit, but all the original concurrency stuff is there too.

fulafel 9y ago

STM is not sold as a headline concurrency feature anymore, apparently people prefer more traditional ways.

Zak 9y ago
I think the main thing is that the use case of modifying multiple references at the same time where it is critical that all changes take place at once is less common in idiomatic Clojure than people might have expected.
- brandonbloom 9y ago
  Yeah, this is exactly it. Atoms were added as a cheaper alternative to Refs for when you didn't need transactions, just compare-and-swap. Turns out that atoms work well enough for even huge single-JVM systems, and are much simpler.
Scarbutt 9y ago
Since most applications use a database, is simpler to keep transactions only at one place, one source of truth.
- platz 9y ago
  for 'business logic', sure, but things like updating/invalidating application caches, or other operations intrinsic to the application (the "non-functional requirements") that can't be isolated to the database.

juskrey 9y ago

They have added reducers with parallel folding, core.async and later added transducers and direct support of them to core.async too.

tosh 9y ago

Perhaps not directly related to 'Concurrency' but iirc ClojureScript got released in 2011 https://clojurescript.org https://clojurescript.org https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVooR-dF_Ag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVooR-dF_Ag (ClojureScript Release)

Blackthorn 9y ago

Not to this, but some things got added to the language: * core.async * pulsar Also a lot of the stuff just didn't turn out to be as common as anticipated when idiomatic Clojure is used.