10 ms·

It will be ironic when these millennials grow up and have children, then try cycling to do the weekly groceries with three kids in tow.

uiri 9y ago
Yeah, it is so difficult to manage that with a trailer or biporteur/cargo bike (e.g. https://www.hollandbikes.com/5321/velo-biporteur-babboe-city-nx7.jpg https://www.hollandbikes.com/5321/velo-biporteur-babboe-city... ) These seem to be quite common in Europe (especially the Netherlands but elsewhere like Germany too). With better cycling infrastructure, there is no reason that they could not catch on in North America.
- adamredwoods 9y ago
  I've seen more of these pop up here in Seattle, but I think biking downtown and biking kids around at night is dangerous. Seattle is still a car culture.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Bicycle infrastructure is not something that just appears one day. Even bike Meccas like parts of the Netherlands took decades to build out that infrastructure.
aikinai 9y ago
As uiri pointed out, transporting a family by bike is very common in other countries so it's not unrealistic at all. Though with how heavily the US is built around cars, the first wave of people trying it will have to make sure to live in the right places in the right cities. Also, people who don't live the suburban car life typically don't buy "weekly" groceries.
- hnlmorg 9y ago
  ...or get their shopping delivered.
  - salviasloth 9y ago
    Via a car
    - hnlmorg 9y ago
      It's actually usually a refrigerated van (bare in mind you'd have chilled and frozen items and those vans can be out for two hours at a time due to having multiple deliveries loaded). But the type of vehicle is a moot point as it's not the shopper who has to own nor drive it. So they can still run a household without themselves owning a car (which was the point of the discussion)
- walshemj 9y ago
  not in first world countries - you don't want the death rates of say India on the roads
  - an27 9y ago
    That's why you build separate bike lanes. It works fine for the Netherlands, but it does require a large investment in bicycle infrastructure.
  - sobani 9y ago
    You mean countries like Germany, Holland or Denmark? I suggest you google for "fiets met kinderzitjes" (bike with child seats) to get examples of how you can transport 2 small children on one regular bike. Once the children get older they can get their own bike. If you need to transport more than 2 children, get yourself a second parent or a bike that's designed to take cargo (yes I just called your children cargo). My mother raised me and my sister on her own, using just a bike.
    - presto8 9y ago
      Seattle is a very hilly city, increasing the challenges for bike commuting for normal people. An electric bike can help but increases the price substantially. At least in Amsterdam where I biked around a bit, it seemed flat as a pancake.
dpark 9y ago
What are you talking about? The oldest millennials are already 35. And lots of people who predate the millennial generation bike in Seattle.
stevenwoo 9y ago
This is from five years ago in Palo Alto so it's doable in America. https://www.flickr.com/photos/swoo/8148861498 https://www.flickr.com/photos/swoo/8148861498 Some of my other acquaintances use a bike trailer or a trail a bike instead of a cargo bike for their kids. It helps that most of Palo Alto is close to flat.
tjr225 9y ago
I kinda see where you're coming from but it's awfully heavy handed and ultimately blames a lack of determination on having children. A good deal of people live by the bicycle, "millennial" or not. There's no virtue signaling happening here. You can either get over it or continue to have a bad attitude- it's not up to me.
adrianN 9y ago
You can cycle to work and do weekly groceries by car, you know? Or you can just do groceries more often than once a week. Or you can buy yourself a trailer for your bike, or a backfiets.
- nickonline 9y ago
  Or you could simply order your weekly groceries and have them delivered so you don't have to keep track of all the children in the store.
  - simonbyrne 9y ago
    I hear a certain Seattle-based business provides such a service.
    - readhn 9y ago
      How much more % wise will your grocery bill be if you have it bought/delivered to you? 20%? 25%? 30%? on a 500$/month grocery family budget you are looking at 100$ - 150$ more for convenience potentially. Its a lot of money for most.
      - freeone3000 9y ago
        My local grocery store charges $20 for delivery, with purchases of more than $200 having free delivery. It's not as expensive as you think.
      - adrianN 9y ago
        Have you calculated how much a car costs compared to a bike?
        readhn 9y ago
        yes cars are expensive. for my local situation here im looking at 1.5hrs commute by bike one way or 3 hrs round trip...every day. plus bad winters to deal with. car is worth the convinience ... in my case. Move closer to work you say? Any cost saving from getting rid of one car will be overshadowed by expensive home prices. Real estate is not really affordable for most folks these days....
zjaffee 9y ago
As someone who grew up in New York, people were getting their groceries delivered long before the days of online shopping, where most grocery stores provided a service at checkout where they'd bring all the groceries to your house after you selected everything, and the fees were pretty reasonable too given someone didn't need to go around the store for you.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
gonzo 9y ago
But Amazon will deliver your order. :-)
gerbilly 9y ago
Even if they do so what, they still will have saved a few years worth of traffic congestion, emissions and will have gotten exercise as well.
mfringel 9y ago
Alternately, they have a motor vehicle and use it sparingly. "Saint or GTFO" is a losing debate strategy with an aware counterparty.

uiri 9y ago

Yeah, it is so difficult to manage that with a trailer or biporteur/cargo bike (e.g. https://www.hollandbikes.com/5321/velo-biporteur-babboe-city-nx7.jpg https://www.hollandbikes.com/5321/velo-biporteur-babboe-city... ) These seem to be quite common in Europe (especially the Netherlands but elsewhere like Germany too). With better cycling infrastructure, there is no reason that they could not catch on in North America.

adamredwoods 9y ago
I've seen more of these pop up here in Seattle, but I think biking downtown and biking kids around at night is dangerous. Seattle is still a car culture.
oh_sigh 9y ago
Bicycle infrastructure is not something that just appears one day. Even bike Meccas like parts of the Netherlands took decades to build out that infrastructure.

aikinai 9y ago

As uiri pointed out, transporting a family by bike is very common in other countries so it's not unrealistic at all. Though with how heavily the US is built around cars, the first wave of people trying it will have to make sure to live in the right places in the right cities. Also, people who don't live the suburban car life typically don't buy "weekly" groceries.

hnlmorg 9y ago
...or get their shopping delivered.
- salviasloth 9y ago
  Via a car
  - hnlmorg 9y ago
    It's actually usually a refrigerated van (bare in mind you'd have chilled and frozen items and those vans can be out for two hours at a time due to having multiple deliveries loaded). But the type of vehicle is a moot point as it's not the shopper who has to own nor drive it. So they can still run a household without themselves owning a car (which was the point of the discussion)
walshemj 9y ago
not in first world countries - you don't want the death rates of say India on the roads
- an27 9y ago
  That's why you build separate bike lanes. It works fine for the Netherlands, but it does require a large investment in bicycle infrastructure.
- sobani 9y ago
  You mean countries like Germany, Holland or Denmark? I suggest you google for "fiets met kinderzitjes" (bike with child seats) to get examples of how you can transport 2 small children on one regular bike. Once the children get older they can get their own bike. If you need to transport more than 2 children, get yourself a second parent or a bike that's designed to take cargo (yes I just called your children cargo). My mother raised me and my sister on her own, using just a bike.
  - presto8 9y ago
    Seattle is a very hilly city, increasing the challenges for bike commuting for normal people. An electric bike can help but increases the price substantially. At least in Amsterdam where I biked around a bit, it seemed flat as a pancake.

dpark 9y ago

What are you talking about? The oldest millennials are already 35. And lots of people who predate the millennial generation bike in Seattle.

stevenwoo 9y ago

This is from five years ago in Palo Alto so it's doable in America. https://www.flickr.com/photos/swoo/8148861498 https://www.flickr.com/photos/swoo/8148861498 Some of my other acquaintances use a bike trailer or a trail a bike instead of a cargo bike for their kids. It helps that most of Palo Alto is close to flat.

tjr225 9y ago

I kinda see where you're coming from but it's awfully heavy handed and ultimately blames a lack of determination on having children. A good deal of people live by the bicycle, "millennial" or not. There's no virtue signaling happening here. You can either get over it or continue to have a bad attitude- it's not up to me.

adrianN 9y ago

You can cycle to work and do weekly groceries by car, you know? Or you can just do groceries more often than once a week. Or you can buy yourself a trailer for your bike, or a backfiets.

nickonline 9y ago
Or you could simply order your weekly groceries and have them delivered so you don't have to keep track of all the children in the store.
- simonbyrne 9y ago
  I hear a certain Seattle-based business provides such a service.
  - readhn 9y ago
    How much more % wise will your grocery bill be if you have it bought/delivered to you? 20%? 25%? 30%? on a 500$/month grocery family budget you are looking at 100$ - 150$ more for convenience potentially. Its a lot of money for most.
    - freeone3000 9y ago
      My local grocery store charges $20 for delivery, with purchases of more than $200 having free delivery. It's not as expensive as you think.
    - adrianN 9y ago
      Have you calculated how much a car costs compared to a bike?
      - readhn 9y ago
        yes cars are expensive. for my local situation here im looking at 1.5hrs commute by bike one way or 3 hrs round trip...every day. plus bad winters to deal with. car is worth the convinience ... in my case. Move closer to work you say? Any cost saving from getting rid of one car will be overshadowed by expensive home prices. Real estate is not really affordable for most folks these days....

zjaffee 9y ago

As someone who grew up in New York, people were getting their groceries delivered long before the days of online shopping, where most grocery stores provided a service at checkout where they'd bring all the groceries to your house after you selected everything, and the fees were pretty reasonable too given someone didn't need to go around the store for you.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

gonzo 9y ago

But Amazon will deliver your order. :-)

gerbilly 9y ago

Even if they do so what, they still will have saved a few years worth of traffic congestion, emissions and will have gotten exercise as well.

mfringel 9y ago

Alternately, they have a motor vehicle and use it sparingly. "Saint or GTFO" is a losing debate strategy with an aware counterparty.