4 ms·

Consulting firms are a strange thing... they build up a reputation for being all about being the veryh best etc etc but in the end the work tends to be just ord

Consulting firms are a strange thing... they build up a reputation for being all about being the veryh best etc etc but in the end the work tends to be just ordinary development work that you get sent in to do at some big company or government department. I guess it appeals to some but wouldn't be my choice of place to work.

einrealist 9y ago
That's true. But many companies buy their services anyway. And that's often because they did not made the transition to software-driven companies (the "internal IT as a cost center" problem) and have trouble or don't even want to hire people. Having worked in the industry for years, I saw so many disfunctional companies that I felt lucky to just be "the consultant".
- mk89 9y ago
  ...or because they don't trust their own developers/architects. It's unbelievable that if a paid consultant tells you something, you tend to believe him more than your own developer[s].
  - MrBuddyCasino 9y ago
    Then you haven't seen the general incompetence. It still surprises me how most IT departments are run, and especially by whom.
    - gaius 9y ago
      Then you haven't seen the general incompetence. Do you think consulting companies are any better? You should ask the NHS.
      - Swannie 9y ago
        Don't confuse outsourcing under the guise of consulting, with real consulting.
        gaius 9y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
        UK-AL 9y ago
        NHS pay a lot of money to companies considered to be "high end" consulting.
        MrBuddyCasino 9y ago
        I think the distinction has merit. There are low-quality shops, which basically rent warm bodies, and then there are consultancies that actively shape future, with the client. ThoughtWorks qualifies for the latter.
    - ACow_Adonis 9y ago
      But that same general incompetence pervades the consultants as well? (Or at least it has in my experience)
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    I have been in a few projects where basically we were repeating the internal developers wishes to upper management, because they needed the confirmation from externals to get the buy-in from upper layers.
    - matt_s 9y ago
      A lot of the times I saw that it wasn't management having a lack of trust in developers it was more believing that they needed external affirmation of what they wanted to do. I believe this is mostly the case of cowardice of making decisions on their own and owning up to the results. If they hire consultants and they mess things up (whether they do or not) they can point a finger at someone.
      - mk89 9y ago
        The old good blame game :) Indeed!
pjmlp 9y ago
As someone doing this kind of work for most part of my career, if you can handle the politics of the Fortune 500 world, the pay is good, healthcare, vacations, remote work packages and actual time off with friends and family makes my time on Earth worthwhile.
mathw 9y ago
This is what I've found having started working at a consultancy this year. I'm not sure it's for me.
skgoa 9y ago
Well, there are two big factors why this happens: * Most big companies simply won't need that very specialized know-how for longer than the project duration. So it's better to just overpay a bit for the duration of the project and then cut off all ties to the worker. * Finding good people to work on important projects is very difficult and entails lots of money/time effort. (Either to find people or to train them.) A consultancy or engineering services company guarantees that the people they send are qualified. They also guarantee that they will provide replacements for people who quite or get ill. They might ever provide a project manager, QA people etc. that make it all much easier for the customer.
sidlls 9y ago
Well, according to Fowler, ThoughtWorks is staffed by only the best: "high ability intellectuals" working at Roy's grand "social experiment." Then you look at their careers page for tech and see exactly what you're describing: mundane dev roles that can be done very well with high quality by people who are very average developers.

einrealist 9y ago

That's true. But many companies buy their services anyway. And that's often because they did not made the transition to software-driven companies (the "internal IT as a cost center" problem) and have trouble or don't even want to hire people. Having worked in the industry for years, I saw so many disfunctional companies that I felt lucky to just be "the consultant".

mk89 9y ago
...or because they don't trust their own developers/architects. It's unbelievable that if a paid consultant tells you something, you tend to believe him more than your own developer[s].
- MrBuddyCasino 9y ago
  Then you haven't seen the general incompetence. It still surprises me how most IT departments are run, and especially by whom.
  - gaius 9y ago
    Then you haven't seen the general incompetence. Do you think consulting companies are any better? You should ask the NHS.
    - Swannie 9y ago
      Don't confuse outsourcing under the guise of consulting, with real consulting.
      - gaius 9y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
      - UK-AL 9y ago
        NHS pay a lot of money to companies considered to be "high end" consulting.
      - MrBuddyCasino 9y ago
        I think the distinction has merit. There are low-quality shops, which basically rent warm bodies, and then there are consultancies that actively shape future, with the client. ThoughtWorks qualifies for the latter.
  - ACow_Adonis 9y ago
    But that same general incompetence pervades the consultants as well? (Or at least it has in my experience)
- pjmlp 9y ago
  I have been in a few projects where basically we were repeating the internal developers wishes to upper management, because they needed the confirmation from externals to get the buy-in from upper layers.
  - matt_s 9y ago
    A lot of the times I saw that it wasn't management having a lack of trust in developers it was more believing that they needed external affirmation of what they wanted to do. I believe this is mostly the case of cowardice of making decisions on their own and owning up to the results. If they hire consultants and they mess things up (whether they do or not) they can point a finger at someone.
    - mk89 9y ago
      The old good blame game :) Indeed!

pjmlp 9y ago

As someone doing this kind of work for most part of my career, if you can handle the politics of the Fortune 500 world, the pay is good, healthcare, vacations, remote work packages and actual time off with friends and family makes my time on Earth worthwhile.

mathw 9y ago

This is what I've found having started working at a consultancy this year. I'm not sure it's for me.

skgoa 9y ago

Well, there are two big factors why this happens: * Most big companies simply won't need that very specialized know-how for longer than the project duration. So it's better to just overpay a bit for the duration of the project and then cut off all ties to the worker. * Finding good people to work on important projects is very difficult and entails lots of money/time effort. (Either to find people or to train them.) A consultancy or engineering services company guarantees that the people they send are qualified. They also guarantee that they will provide replacements for people who quite or get ill. They might ever provide a project manager, QA people etc. that make it all much easier for the customer.

sidlls 9y ago

Well, according to Fowler, ThoughtWorks is staffed by only the best: "high ability intellectuals" working at Roy's grand "social experiment." Then you look at their careers page for tech and see exactly what you're describing: mundane dev roles that can be done very well with high quality by people who are very average developers.