7 ms·

From Wikipedia: > A company town is a place where practically all stores and housing are owned by the one company that is also the main employer. From the art

From Wikipedia: > A company town is a place where practically all stores and housing are owned by the one company that is also the main employer. From the article: > Amazon now occupies a mind-boggling 19 percent of all prime office space in the city True company towns are known for an abusive power dynamic where employers, by controlling employees' income and expenses simultaneously, can force them into debt and make them unable to leave. It's a sort of societal anti-pattern, which our culture recognized and gave a name to. But Amazon in Seattle doesn't fit that antipattern, because it doesn't control its employees' housing or other expenses. I'd rather we didn't dilute the "company town" phrase to refer to cases where a company merely owns lots of office space.

devindotcom 9y ago
Not sure if you've been to South Lake Union recently (I live nearby) but I think it does fit that description, at least a modern version of it. TONS of Amazon employees live and work in SLU and very close and spend a large amount of their time there. There's a huge internal system of restaurants, cafes, and stores and of course Amazon's own dogfooded grocery stuff. I mean it's pretty far from a scrip system at a mining town but they're capturing as much of the lives as possible of the people who work there for the two years or so they stick around on average. So yeah, while it isn't a 'company town' by the original definition it's a modern interpretation of it. Of course Google, Microsoft, FB and others have the same idea - it's a great way to squeeze every drop out of your employees.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  That still doesn't sound much like a company town, if all they're doing is setting up convenient stores and services that their employees choose to patronize (or not), rather than making it nearly impossible for their employees to do anything else.
  - mulmen 9y ago
    Amazon isn't setting up most of these stores. The overwhelming majority of the businesses in SLU are not owned by or affiliated with Amazon.
- hnthro12928 9y ago
  > There's a huge internal system of restaurants, cafes, and stores This made me laugh out loud. The only thing you get at Amazon for free is water and coffee and a $100 credit on Amazon purchases where the seller is Amazon. There are a handful of coffee shops that are in the buildings that serve some food but that space is leased by those companies. The food and drinks are absolutely not free. Most Amazon employees go outside to the foodtrucks and buy from there. I will say that just like most people living in cities a lot of things are purchased through Amazon and so in that sense it is a bit like a company store. Outside of that, it's just laughably absurd. The employees would be much happier if they got those perks.
  - surement 9y ago
    > There are a handful of coffee shops that are in the buildings that serve some food but that space is leased by those companies. The food and drinks are absolutely not free. I think they meant internal to South Lake Union. > The employees would be much happier if they got those perks. If they got those perks but had to live in a suburban sprawl like SV? I think it's more of a tradeoff that some people are glad to make.
    - mulmen 9y ago
      > I think they meant internal to South Lake Union. That's an absurd statement though. A company town exploits the workers by making profit from them. Amazon is not doing this. It's clickbait.
      - rconti 9y ago
        Who owns the land that the restaurants in SLU lease? Serious question. It's all been built up so quickly and is all so new -- it looks like it could be Amazon-owned, or that could just be a natural consequence of being built around the same time.
        dmoy 9y ago
        A lot of SLU land is owned by Vulcan (aka Paul Allen). I don't know about Amazon's stuff specifically. I would guess a lot of their real estate is leased.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"I mean it's pretty far from a scrip system at a mining town but they're capturing as much of the lives as possible of the people who work there for the two years or so they stick around on average." Interesting, is two years a real average for an Amazon relocation hire in Seattle?
  - rifung 9y ago
    I don't know the answer to your question but two years is the length you have to stay so that you don't have to pay back the relocation bonus. It would not surprise me that many people leave at 2 years.
  - Analemma_ 9y ago
    Yes. I have a friend at Amazon who just finished his fifth year and he confirmed he's already an in the upper quartile of longevity. He estimated a median 'lifespan' of 18 months for Seattle-based devs; it was admittedly a back-of-the-envelope calculation but their turnover is definitely sky-high.
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      Thanks, any insight into whether this is because of work life balance and culture at Amazon or people simply deciding that Seattle isn't for them?
      - pinewurst 9y ago
        Oh it's Amazon alright: https://sites.google.com/site/thefaceofamazon/ https://sites.google.com/site/thefaceofamazon/
      - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        It's the first one.
    - surement 9y ago
      Not so much a lifespan as an average; Amazon is hiring tens of thousands of people every year.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- WalterBright 9y ago
  Having good food on site is a perq, not a "squeeze every drop".
  - peterwwillis 9y ago
    Food on site is intended to keep your employees on site. There's no other point. Every other employer provides meal stipends, which employees can use as reimbursement for meals (perk). They also get wider choice and variety. But then they're not in the office. If you can't afford to build a kitchen, you provide a stipend and a website to order delivery from a rotating array of local restaurants. Keep food on site, they stay on site, where they can continue to peer-bond, talk about work, and get back to work.
    - mulmen 9y ago
      There are company cafeterias and private restaurants and food trucks. Amazon does not force employees to buy food at Amazon cafes. The campus is just in a city where normal city things exist.
    - WalterBright 9y ago
      > There's no other point. Having eaten at Google's internal cafe, it is most definitely a perq, and is useful for attracting employee candidates.
      - eclipxe 9y ago
        perk
        WalterBright 9y ago
        It's perq, short for perquisite
        PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        Despite that, "perk" is the generally accepted spelling. Sorry, English is weird.
loeg 9y ago
Despite that bogus use of the term, I found the article surprisingly good. I'm really coming to dislike headline writers (who are usually not the authors of the article).
- mulmen 9y ago
  The headline is blatant clickbait.
dang 9y ago
Ok, let's just avoid that issue. We've changed the title above to the factual statement of the subtitle.

devindotcom 9y ago

Not sure if you've been to South Lake Union recently (I live nearby) but I think it does fit that description, at least a modern version of it. TONS of Amazon employees live and work in SLU and very close and spend a large amount of their time there. There's a huge internal system of restaurants, cafes, and stores and of course Amazon's own dogfooded grocery stuff. I mean it's pretty far from a scrip system at a mining town but they're capturing as much of the lives as possible of the people who work there for the two years or so they stick around on average. So yeah, while it isn't a 'company town' by the original definition it's a modern interpretation of it. Of course Google, Microsoft, FB and others have the same idea - it's a great way to squeeze every drop out of your employees.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago
That still doesn't sound much like a company town, if all they're doing is setting up convenient stores and services that their employees choose to patronize (or not), rather than making it nearly impossible for their employees to do anything else.
- mulmen 9y ago
  Amazon isn't setting up most of these stores. The overwhelming majority of the businesses in SLU are not owned by or affiliated with Amazon.
hnthro12928 9y ago
> There's a huge internal system of restaurants, cafes, and stores This made me laugh out loud. The only thing you get at Amazon for free is water and coffee and a $100 credit on Amazon purchases where the seller is Amazon. There are a handful of coffee shops that are in the buildings that serve some food but that space is leased by those companies. The food and drinks are absolutely not free. Most Amazon employees go outside to the foodtrucks and buy from there. I will say that just like most people living in cities a lot of things are purchased through Amazon and so in that sense it is a bit like a company store. Outside of that, it's just laughably absurd. The employees would be much happier if they got those perks.
- surement 9y ago
  > There are a handful of coffee shops that are in the buildings that serve some food but that space is leased by those companies. The food and drinks are absolutely not free. I think they meant internal to South Lake Union. > The employees would be much happier if they got those perks. If they got those perks but had to live in a suburban sprawl like SV? I think it's more of a tradeoff that some people are glad to make.
  - mulmen 9y ago
    > I think they meant internal to South Lake Union. That's an absurd statement though. A company town exploits the workers by making profit from them. Amazon is not doing this. It's clickbait.
    - rconti 9y ago
      Who owns the land that the restaurants in SLU lease? Serious question. It's all been built up so quickly and is all so new -- it looks like it could be Amazon-owned, or that could just be a natural consequence of being built around the same time.
      - dmoy 9y ago
        A lot of SLU land is owned by Vulcan (aka Paul Allen). I don't know about Amazon's stuff specifically. I would guess a lot of their real estate is leased.
bogomipz 9y ago
>"I mean it's pretty far from a scrip system at a mining town but they're capturing as much of the lives as possible of the people who work there for the two years or so they stick around on average." Interesting, is two years a real average for an Amazon relocation hire in Seattle?
- rifung 9y ago
  I don't know the answer to your question but two years is the length you have to stay so that you don't have to pay back the relocation bonus. It would not surprise me that many people leave at 2 years.
- Analemma_ 9y ago
  Yes. I have a friend at Amazon who just finished his fifth year and he confirmed he's already an in the upper quartile of longevity. He estimated a median 'lifespan' of 18 months for Seattle-based devs; it was admittedly a back-of-the-envelope calculation but their turnover is definitely sky-high.
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    Thanks, any insight into whether this is because of work life balance and culture at Amazon or people simply deciding that Seattle isn't for them?
    - pinewurst 9y ago
      Oh it's Amazon alright: https://sites.google.com/site/thefaceofamazon/ https://sites.google.com/site/thefaceofamazon/
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      It's the first one.
  - surement 9y ago
    Not so much a lifespan as an average; Amazon is hiring tens of thousands of people every year.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
WalterBright 9y ago
Having good food on site is a perq, not a "squeeze every drop".
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  Food on site is intended to keep your employees on site. There's no other point. Every other employer provides meal stipends, which employees can use as reimbursement for meals (perk). They also get wider choice and variety. But then they're not in the office. If you can't afford to build a kitchen, you provide a stipend and a website to order delivery from a rotating array of local restaurants. Keep food on site, they stay on site, where they can continue to peer-bond, talk about work, and get back to work.
  - mulmen 9y ago
    There are company cafeterias and private restaurants and food trucks. Amazon does not force employees to buy food at Amazon cafes. The campus is just in a city where normal city things exist.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    > There's no other point. Having eaten at Google's internal cafe, it is most definitely a perq, and is useful for attracting employee candidates.
    - eclipxe 9y ago
      perk
      - WalterBright 9y ago
        It's perq, short for perquisite
        PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        Despite that, "perk" is the generally accepted spelling. Sorry, English is weird.

loeg 9y ago

Despite that bogus use of the term, I found the article surprisingly good. I'm really coming to dislike headline writers (who are usually not the authors of the article).

mulmen 9y ago
The headline is blatant clickbait.

dang 9y ago

Ok, let's just avoid that issue. We've changed the title above to the factual statement of the subtitle.