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I've also always wondered this. But people seldom run. I think Snowden had seen enough of the sausage being made to realize that hiding in the USA was impossib

I've also always wondered this. But people seldom run. I think Snowden had seen enough of the sausage being made to realize that hiding in the USA was impossible, given the security apparatus' capabilities.

notfromhere 9y ago
Given that he defected to Moscow, staying in the US wasn't an option
- pseingatl 9y ago
  Snowden didn't defect. He was on his way to Venezuela, which had granted him asylum. The US canceled his passport, stranding him in Russia. Even though the Venezuelan Air Force has an Airbus, flying to Russia non-stop was not feasible--Evo Morales, the president of Bolivia, had his plane forced down on the suspicion that Snowden was aboard. Still, if Putin wanted to get Snowden to Venezuela, all he had to do was put him aboard a Russian nuclear submarine. In ten days, Snowden would be in Maiquetia with no risk of interference. As it turns out, Russia is probably a safer place for Snowden than today's Venezuela.
  - wbl 9y ago
    If Venezuela was willing to let him travel there they could have issued him documentation to do so.
    - metalliqaz 9y ago
      He would have had to get there. He was stuck behind customs in a Russian airport and the president's plane had already been grounded looking for him.
    - gknoy 9y ago
      Documentation sounds like it would do very little to deter rendition by a nation-state.
      - lostlogin 9y ago
        Kidnapping from another country followed by torture has only been done by a couple of countries recently. The term 'rendition' sounds much more civilised though, and 'nation-state' makes it sound like a government other than that of the US might do it to Snowden.
        justadeveloper2 9y ago
        It's an ugly, ugly exercise of power. I have the odd tie in of having lived near an airport in NC where the CIA was operating small jets to conduct those "renditions" (read: kidnappings) overseas during the Bush II years. The other place in the US that is weird: The base known as "The Farm" right next to Colonial Williamsburg which is neither fish nor fowl--a lot of people and things get moved in and out of the US from there with zero accountability. We badly need to get the US government back under control because the things done in our names are simply evil.
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      Please read the post you're responding to again.
      - wbl 9y ago
        The cancellation had no effect on the ability of Venezuela or Russia to permit him to travel.
        Bootvis 9y ago
        The part where the plane was forced to land.
        wbl 9y ago
        Had Snowden been in Evo Morales plane nothing could have been done about it. That plane was extraterratorial.
        PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        Sentence four. Let me spell it out for you: Venezuela and Russia would happily have allowed Snowden to fly, but the US was ready and willing to force down and search any plane that was even suspected of carrying Snowden.
        raducu 9y ago
        Snowden is just a bargaining chip Russia prefers kept in its own pocket.
        PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        Quite possibly, but they never tried to prevent him from flying, so that's irrelevant here.
- metalliqaz 9y ago
  Crazy that people still believe this stupid lie, easily debunked by 30 seconds on Wikipedia. Even crazier is that the people who really wanted to string Snowden up by the neck were the conservatives, because they love law enforcement and are willing to give up freedom in order to fight Islamic terrorism. In other words, supporting Big Brother despite ostensibly wanting less government. Crazier still is that those same people, the ones who were demonizing Snowden for ending up in Russia, are now in love with Assange and Putin because Trump. "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the Universe."
  - chaostheory 9y ago
    > Even crazier is that the people who really wanted to string Snowden up by the neck were the conservatives I strongly feel that this had bipartisan support across the aisles. Obama supported it, despite his pledge to protect whistle blowers. Hillary was no different.
    - asveikau 9y ago
      It's true that this was bipartisan amongst elected officials, and strangely to me, a number of liberal people in my native DC area that I still talk to. I think there were varying degrees though. Do you think Trump would have let Manning go for example? I'm not sure that even Hillary would have. And yet Obama did, eventually. Also, there is little doubt in my mind that mutual hate of Hillary brought together WikiLeaks and several previously unlikely allies.
      - chaostheory 9y ago
        > you think Trump would have let Manning go for example? I'm not sure that even Hillary would have. Of course not, I'm just trying to dispel the myth that the world is in black and white. You can't just hold the 'other' party accountable. We need to look in the mirror.
    - louithethrid 9y ago
      Powerthirsty psychopaths of all factions unite against the puppets marching of on theire own.
jwhitlark 9y ago
Part of it is the psychology of it. The fraud triangle is opportunity, rationalization, and pressure. Many people have convinced themselves that they're not doing anything wrong, or that they deserve it. If you're not doing something wrong, why flee? Others get greedy. I had an accounting professor who used to say, "If you're going to steal, steal big and steal once."
justadeveloper2 9y ago
Psychology--people will try to remain close to places and people they know. There are many examples such behavior especially during natural disasters when they are commanded or know they should flee but don't.

notfromhere 9y ago

Given that he defected to Moscow, staying in the US wasn't an option

pseingatl 9y ago
Snowden didn't defect. He was on his way to Venezuela, which had granted him asylum. The US canceled his passport, stranding him in Russia. Even though the Venezuelan Air Force has an Airbus, flying to Russia non-stop was not feasible--Evo Morales, the president of Bolivia, had his plane forced down on the suspicion that Snowden was aboard. Still, if Putin wanted to get Snowden to Venezuela, all he had to do was put him aboard a Russian nuclear submarine. In ten days, Snowden would be in Maiquetia with no risk of interference. As it turns out, Russia is probably a safer place for Snowden than today's Venezuela.
- wbl 9y ago
  If Venezuela was willing to let him travel there they could have issued him documentation to do so.
  - metalliqaz 9y ago
    He would have had to get there. He was stuck behind customs in a Russian airport and the president's plane had already been grounded looking for him.
  - gknoy 9y ago
    Documentation sounds like it would do very little to deter rendition by a nation-state.
    - lostlogin 9y ago
      Kidnapping from another country followed by torture has only been done by a couple of countries recently. The term 'rendition' sounds much more civilised though, and 'nation-state' makes it sound like a government other than that of the US might do it to Snowden.
      - justadeveloper2 9y ago
        It's an ugly, ugly exercise of power. I have the odd tie in of having lived near an airport in NC where the CIA was operating small jets to conduct those "renditions" (read: kidnappings) overseas during the Bush II years. The other place in the US that is weird: The base known as "The Farm" right next to Colonial Williamsburg which is neither fish nor fowl--a lot of people and things get moved in and out of the US from there with zero accountability. We badly need to get the US government back under control because the things done in our names are simply evil.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    Please read the post you're responding to again.
    - wbl 9y ago
      The cancellation had no effect on the ability of Venezuela or Russia to permit him to travel.
      - Bootvis 9y ago
        The part where the plane was forced to land.
        wbl 9y ago
        Had Snowden been in Evo Morales plane nothing could have been done about it. That plane was extraterratorial.
      - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        Sentence four. Let me spell it out for you: Venezuela and Russia would happily have allowed Snowden to fly, but the US was ready and willing to force down and search any plane that was even suspected of carrying Snowden.
        raducu 9y ago
        Snowden is just a bargaining chip Russia prefers kept in its own pocket.
        PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        Quite possibly, but they never tried to prevent him from flying, so that's irrelevant here.
metalliqaz 9y ago
Crazy that people still believe this stupid lie, easily debunked by 30 seconds on Wikipedia. Even crazier is that the people who really wanted to string Snowden up by the neck were the conservatives, because they love law enforcement and are willing to give up freedom in order to fight Islamic terrorism. In other words, supporting Big Brother despite ostensibly wanting less government. Crazier still is that those same people, the ones who were demonizing Snowden for ending up in Russia, are now in love with Assange and Putin because Trump. "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the Universe."
- chaostheory 9y ago
  > Even crazier is that the people who really wanted to string Snowden up by the neck were the conservatives I strongly feel that this had bipartisan support across the aisles. Obama supported it, despite his pledge to protect whistle blowers. Hillary was no different.
  - asveikau 9y ago
    It's true that this was bipartisan amongst elected officials, and strangely to me, a number of liberal people in my native DC area that I still talk to. I think there were varying degrees though. Do you think Trump would have let Manning go for example? I'm not sure that even Hillary would have. And yet Obama did, eventually. Also, there is little doubt in my mind that mutual hate of Hillary brought together WikiLeaks and several previously unlikely allies.
    - chaostheory 9y ago
      > you think Trump would have let Manning go for example? I'm not sure that even Hillary would have. Of course not, I'm just trying to dispel the myth that the world is in black and white. You can't just hold the 'other' party accountable. We need to look in the mirror.
  - louithethrid 9y ago
    Powerthirsty psychopaths of all factions unite against the puppets marching of on theire own.

jwhitlark 9y ago

Part of it is the psychology of it. The fraud triangle is opportunity, rationalization, and pressure. Many people have convinced themselves that they're not doing anything wrong, or that they deserve it. If you're not doing something wrong, why flee? Others get greedy. I had an accounting professor who used to say, "If you're going to steal, steal big and steal once."

justadeveloper2 9y ago

Psychology--people will try to remain close to places and people they know. There are many examples such behavior especially during natural disasters when they are commanded or know they should flee but don't.