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The problem with writing hash tables or any fundamental data structures in JS/Ruby/Python/etc is that most of the hard work is done for them. The hard part is

The problem with writing hash tables or any fundamental data structures in JS/Ruby/Python/etc is that most of the hard work is done for them. The hard part is allocation memory, keeping track of the structure(array) holding the hashtable, etc. What else is there? Implementing the hash function/code? If you don't have a CS degree, you probably don't even know how lists, queues, stacks, etc really work. But the kind of programming that is done at a "high" level, you might not even need know it. Instead of saying people should implement it JS/Ruby/Python/etc ( all of whom are OOPs ), they should learn C and implement it in C.

pfranz 9y ago
There's room for both. There's a reason why a lot of CS programs have shuffled from primarily C to Python (some had Java in between). Not having to deal with boilerplate and housekeeping lets you focus on learning the topic at hand. Especially in a classroom setting where you're probably focusing on the specific subject instead of real-world dirtiness. But after learning the basic concept, you do need an actual implementation if you want to do anything.
- eighthnate 9y ago
  > There's room for both. Sure. I'm all for learning ML, Scheme, C/C++, Python, Ruby, Java/C#, etc. > There's a reason why a lot of CS programs have shuffled from primarily C to Python (some had Java in between). The reason is called dumbing down the curriculum. My fall freshman year, my college tried to switch from C to Java in order to make it easier for the general population to get into CS and there was a major pushback from the CS student body, alumni and a bunch of the CS professors. We went back to C/C++ my sophomore year. > Not having to deal with boilerplate and housekeeping lets you focus on learning the topic at hand. I disagree. Having to deal with the boilerplate and housekeeping helps you learn the topic at hand. > But after learning the basic concept, you do need an actual implementation if you want to do anything. I disagree. Giving them "training wheels" will keep them dependent on training wheels. In an idealistic world, people go from Java/Python to C/Assembly, but that's rarely the case. CS should begin with Math ( boolean algebra/logic/etc ), Assembly and C. Then go on to functional paradigms. Then to OOP. Etc ( in the language ). Of course they should also learn about OS( kernel/filesystems/etc ), networks, computation theory/etc, compilers, etc. The dumbing down of the curriculum so that music/english majors can pass CS classes doesn't do anyone any favors.
  - B1narySunset 9y ago
    The dumbing down of the curriculum so that music/english majors can pass CS classes doesn't do anyone any favors. You sound butt-hurt
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - eighthnate 9y ago
      Huh? I'm not butthurt. Seems like you are though. I'm sorry having standards and expectations is something that offends so many people. C isn't a "difficult" language. It's something any CS major should have an understanding of. I can't believe on hackernews, I'd get attacked for saying people should learn C. Nevermind that most OSes and most languages themselves are written in C. Even python interpreters are written in C. Since when is saying people should learn C for a CS degree considered being "butthurt"? What's next? Saying people should learn latin/ancient greek for a liberal arts degree is considered being butthurt?
      - B1narySunset 9y ago
        You're being attacked because of your condescending tone implying that music and english majors aren't smart enough to pass the CS curriculum
        grzm 9y ago
        You're being attacked Regardless of how much you may disagree with what someone said or how they said it, attacking them for it (even verbally) is not an appropriate response. It only contributes to worsening the discourse. If you can't find a way to disagree or express an opinion constructively, it's better to refrain from commenting at all.
    - joeberon 9y ago
      Level of discourse on Hacker News 2017

pfranz 9y ago

There's room for both. There's a reason why a lot of CS programs have shuffled from primarily C to Python (some had Java in between). Not having to deal with boilerplate and housekeeping lets you focus on learning the topic at hand. Especially in a classroom setting where you're probably focusing on the specific subject instead of real-world dirtiness. But after learning the basic concept, you do need an actual implementation if you want to do anything.

eighthnate 9y ago
> There's room for both. Sure. I'm all for learning ML, Scheme, C/C++, Python, Ruby, Java/C#, etc. > There's a reason why a lot of CS programs have shuffled from primarily C to Python (some had Java in between). The reason is called dumbing down the curriculum. My fall freshman year, my college tried to switch from C to Java in order to make it easier for the general population to get into CS and there was a major pushback from the CS student body, alumni and a bunch of the CS professors. We went back to C/C++ my sophomore year. > Not having to deal with boilerplate and housekeeping lets you focus on learning the topic at hand. I disagree. Having to deal with the boilerplate and housekeeping helps you learn the topic at hand. > But after learning the basic concept, you do need an actual implementation if you want to do anything. I disagree. Giving them "training wheels" will keep them dependent on training wheels. In an idealistic world, people go from Java/Python to C/Assembly, but that's rarely the case. CS should begin with Math ( boolean algebra/logic/etc ), Assembly and C. Then go on to functional paradigms. Then to OOP. Etc ( in the language ). Of course they should also learn about OS( kernel/filesystems/etc ), networks, computation theory/etc, compilers, etc. The dumbing down of the curriculum so that music/english majors can pass CS classes doesn't do anyone any favors.
- B1narySunset 9y ago
  The dumbing down of the curriculum so that music/english majors can pass CS classes doesn't do anyone any favors. You sound butt-hurt
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - eighthnate 9y ago
    Huh? I'm not butthurt. Seems like you are though. I'm sorry having standards and expectations is something that offends so many people. C isn't a "difficult" language. It's something any CS major should have an understanding of. I can't believe on hackernews, I'd get attacked for saying people should learn C. Nevermind that most OSes and most languages themselves are written in C. Even python interpreters are written in C. Since when is saying people should learn C for a CS degree considered being "butthurt"? What's next? Saying people should learn latin/ancient greek for a liberal arts degree is considered being butthurt?
    - B1narySunset 9y ago
      You're being attacked because of your condescending tone implying that music and english majors aren't smart enough to pass the CS curriculum
      - grzm 9y ago
        You're being attacked Regardless of how much you may disagree with what someone said or how they said it, attacking them for it (even verbally) is not an appropriate response. It only contributes to worsening the discourse. If you can't find a way to disagree or express an opinion constructively, it's better to refrain from commenting at all.
  - joeberon 9y ago
    Level of discourse on Hacker News 2017