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At a high level, it's a reaction to the fact that the system seems incapable of dealing with certain crimes. Rape, any crime committed by police, war crimes, wh

At a high level, it's a reaction to the fact that the system seems incapable of dealing with certain crimes. Rape, any crime committed by police, war crimes, white collar theft, inmate abuse, biased promotion, harassment... so many of these things are really hard to get police to care about. So people are turning to alternative means. It worries me, but at the same time I want to see justice. I feel conflicted about it. Politically, on the one side you have people screaming about the rule of law. I think that would be ideologically consistent if they also supported increased law enforcement pressure on these kinds of crimes. But they generally don't. On the other side, you have people arguing we need to take the law into our own hands and fight back against "fascism", white supremacy, all of these things. But those same people don't generally want to take responsibility for the crimes they are complicit in (war crimes, theft of indigenous land, soft racism, etc). I don't see a clear resolution, although I think the whole situation is a reaction to the internet forcing increased self-awareness on us, and us not being able to deal with the possibility that we're genuinely bad people. The internet showed us how much violence we're complicit in, and we're reacting by getting real mad at whoever is far enough away for us to dissociate from.

adjkant 9y ago
> "At a high level, it's a reaction to the fact that the system seems incapable of dealing with certain crimes. Rape, any crime committed by police, war crimes, white collar theft, inmate abuse, biased promotion, harassment... so many of these things are really hard to get police to care about. > So people are turning to alternative means. It worries me, but at the same time I want to see justice. I feel conflicted about it." Well said. In some ways this seems a bit like transferring the moral questions of vigilante justice in comics to the individual person. If you see an injustice that will not be corrected, do you have the power/obligation to correct it? The main failing is the lack of certainty, which should be one of the main focuses here.
alphaalpha101 9y ago
>At a high level, it's a reaction to the fact that the system seems incapable of dealing with certain crimes. Rape, any crime committed by police, war crimes, white collar theft, inmate abuse, biased promotion, harassment... so many of these things are really hard to get police to care about. I kind of have to wonder about a list that includes 'war crimes', 'rape', 'biased promotion' and 'harassment'. Like, seriously, these are a class of similar issues? I'm not going all 'ARE YOU COMPARING X and Y????' on you, but really. Those are some pretty specific issues, why them in particular? >Politically, on the one side you have people screaming about the rule of law. I think that would be ideologically consistent if they also supported increased law enforcement pressure on these kinds of crimes. But they generally don't. But people do support increased law enforcement pressure on these kinds of crimes. People do want rapists to go to prison. People do want war crimes to result in changes. People do want bankers sent to prison. But it seems that unless you think that accused rapists should be presumed guilty that you're 'pro-rape'. It seems that unless you think that women and minorities should just get priority in all promotions, that you 'support biased promotion'. You know? >On the other side, you have people arguing we need to take the law into our own hands and fight back against "fascism", white supremacy, all of these things. But those same people don't generally want to take responsibility for the crimes they are complicit in (war crimes, theft of indigenous land, soft racism, etc). Those so-called 'crimes' are just 'being white', unfortunately. If you're a white American, then you're held responsible for all the US military's crimes, all racism in America and all historical injustices against native Americans. It's ridiculous. Why do you think that Trump supporters are so alienated from the mainstream left? They don't want to be held responsible for things that have literally nothing to do with them.
factsaresacred 9y ago
> it's a reaction to the fact that the system seems incapable of dealing with certain crimes. There's a reason "the system" seems incapable of dealing with the crime of 'holding an opinion I disagree with'. Hint: it's not a crime.
- pdkl95 9y ago
  "Holding an opinion I disagree with" was not one of the enumerated examples of "certain crimes". The crimes that were listed are very good examples of how we have lost the rule of law. The internet is allowing the average person to realize the two-tier nature of the justice system and extent of systemic corruption. After suffering through decades of abuse from systems that were theoretically "of the people", how do you expect people to react? Hint: Sticking your head in the sand and pretending these problems don't exist isn't a good long-term survival strategy.
- Pica_soO 9y ago
  You can scream and yell until it is one though.

adjkant 9y ago

> "At a high level, it's a reaction to the fact that the system seems incapable of dealing with certain crimes. Rape, any crime committed by police, war crimes, white collar theft, inmate abuse, biased promotion, harassment... so many of these things are really hard to get police to care about. > So people are turning to alternative means. It worries me, but at the same time I want to see justice. I feel conflicted about it." Well said. In some ways this seems a bit like transferring the moral questions of vigilante justice in comics to the individual person. If you see an injustice that will not be corrected, do you have the power/obligation to correct it? The main failing is the lack of certainty, which should be one of the main focuses here.

alphaalpha101 9y ago

>At a high level, it's a reaction to the fact that the system seems incapable of dealing with certain crimes. Rape, any crime committed by police, war crimes, white collar theft, inmate abuse, biased promotion, harassment... so many of these things are really hard to get police to care about. I kind of have to wonder about a list that includes 'war crimes', 'rape', 'biased promotion' and 'harassment'. Like, seriously, these are a class of similar issues? I'm not going all 'ARE YOU COMPARING X and Y????' on you, but really. Those are some pretty specific issues, why them in particular? >Politically, on the one side you have people screaming about the rule of law. I think that would be ideologically consistent if they also supported increased law enforcement pressure on these kinds of crimes. But they generally don't. But people do support increased law enforcement pressure on these kinds of crimes. People do want rapists to go to prison. People do want war crimes to result in changes. People do want bankers sent to prison. But it seems that unless you think that accused rapists should be presumed guilty that you're 'pro-rape'. It seems that unless you think that women and minorities should just get priority in all promotions, that you 'support biased promotion'. You know? >On the other side, you have people arguing we need to take the law into our own hands and fight back against "fascism", white supremacy, all of these things. But those same people don't generally want to take responsibility for the crimes they are complicit in (war crimes, theft of indigenous land, soft racism, etc). Those so-called 'crimes' are just 'being white', unfortunately. If you're a white American, then you're held responsible for all the US military's crimes, all racism in America and all historical injustices against native Americans. It's ridiculous. Why do you think that Trump supporters are so alienated from the mainstream left? They don't want to be held responsible for things that have literally nothing to do with them.

factsaresacred 9y ago

> it's a reaction to the fact that the system seems incapable of dealing with certain crimes. There's a reason "the system" seems incapable of dealing with the crime of 'holding an opinion I disagree with'. Hint: it's not a crime.

pdkl95 9y ago
"Holding an opinion I disagree with" was not one of the enumerated examples of "certain crimes". The crimes that were listed are very good examples of how we have lost the rule of law. The internet is allowing the average person to realize the two-tier nature of the justice system and extent of systemic corruption. After suffering through decades of abuse from systems that were theoretically "of the people", how do you expect people to react? Hint: Sticking your head in the sand and pretending these problems don't exist isn't a good long-term survival strategy.
Pica_soO 9y ago
You can scream and yell until it is one though.