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I'm know some of the specifics around this - and whilst I will not comment in any official capacity or on the specifics here, I can offer the following general

I'm know some of the specifics around this - and whilst I will not comment in any official capacity or on the specifics here, I can offer the following general principles which may be applicable here: 1. More often than not, it's not something nefarious or convoluted, but something very simple. 2. A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves (whether from themselves or from outside forces). (Disclaimer: I work for Google).

WaylonKenning 9y ago
Pretty rough to not tell people what that 'very simple' thing is, and how deactivating their account through a terms of use violation is 'for the protection of users'. I think with great trust comes great responsibility, and Google is eroding this trust, as shown in this thread, with kafkaesque processes around account termination.
- jtmcmc 9y ago
  I doubt it's one simple thing but any number of simple things and they can't tell you for the fact that they like their job.
  - victorhooi 9y ago
    Yes, I happen to like my job, so won't comment on specifics =). However, as a general principal, I've found that Google has very robust protections to protect users from both themselves, and from malicious outside forces. (Disclaimer: I work for Google).
kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
When your life is screwed up due to your primary google account of over a decade (that has god knows what all data, memories, contacts, brand association etc.) being shut down with little to no recourse, it does not matter that it was not nefarious or convoluted. It especially does not matter that it wasn't nefarious when Google isn't going to listen to you anyway unless you happen to write a blog post that happens to get viral in the right circles. It's not like there's a simple form that you can fill and which is reviewed and resolved in a few days reliably if your account gets deactivated by mistake. At that point you might as well be banging your head on a wall for all the good that will do.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > It's not like there's a simple form that you can fill and which is reviewed and resolved in a few days reliably if your account gets deactivated by mistake. Even a few days is unacceptable. There are times in my life where, if my Google Calendar, Google Docs, and email had all been shut off simultaneously, even for only a few days, I would have been completely fucked. Think travel, etc. I switched to a different email provider for this reason. (Remember that this also includes your phone, if you're on an Android device).
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    (Remember that this also includes your phone, if you're on an Android device). Is that inherent in using Android, or only if you use Google's own apps and online storage for your calendar etc?
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      It's not inherent in AOSP, but it's true for most Android users.
  - ucaetano 9y ago
    > Even a few days is unacceptable. There are times in my life where, if my Google Calendar, Google Docs, and email had all been shut off simultaneously, even for only a few days, I would have been completely fucked. Think travel, etc. If you want that level of service, maybe you shouldn't use a free product. You can have a free product, or you can have good, responsive, human customer service. You can't have both. If you chose a free product, be ready to handle the consequences of your decision like everybody else.
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      > If you want that level of service, maybe you shouldn't use a free product. ...did you not read the part where I said I switched to a different provider? And I was a paying customer - I had a Google Apps account, which comes with an annual fee for providing those services. Of course, the problem isn't about me personally - it's that so many other, less technically savvy people aren't aware of how vulnerable they are to this problem. They don't think about it until it happens to them. > You can have a free product, or you can have good, responsive, human customer service. You can't have both This dichotomy is both reductive and inapplicable. The problem, as explained in this thread, is that Google has a reputation for bad service, even for their paid offerings. It exists, which is more than can be said of the support for the free products, but it's still not good enough. And again, most customers aren't aware of the extent of this and its implications until it's too late.
Paul-ish 9y ago
This makes it sounds like someone (or some nation) was trying to break into the account.
justicezyx 9y ago
> 1. More often than not, it's not something nefarious or convoluted, but something very simple. Then let's not make them happen. > 2. A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves (whether from themselves or from outside forces). Please please please listen to customer and figure out how to protect them.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kuschku 9y ago
> 1. More often than not, it's not something nefarious or convoluted, but something very simple. 2. A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves (whether from themselves or from outside forces). I recently had an issue where a hijacker, from another country, was able to take over my account and change the password, without access to the backup email, the SMS, or anything except the password. Google even mailed me a warning that this user from another country was accessing the account, and changing the password. When I tried to get it restored – I knew the phone number (but had no access anymore because the number was reassigned to another person), had the old password, access to backup email, knew the content of emails on the account, etc – I was denied. It was easier to get the user who got my old number, contact them, and go together with them through all the steps to get the account back. To top it even off, after I had contacted Google support about this originally, they never contacted me back – instead, once I recovered the account, I found that instead they had talked with the hijacker. And you tell me this was to protect me? Honestly, fuck that.
- __jal 9y ago
  Yep. Similar things have happened to people I know, and I recently went on a rampage, locking down a ton of things related to third parties due to someone attempting to get access to my accounts. A lot of people hate this answer, but do not entrust Google, Yahoo^H^H^H^H^HOath, or any other big free service with gatekeeper status to anything financial or, really, anything more important than chatting with pals. Host it with someone trustworthy; if that is not you or someone you personally trust, then someone you pay, who will listen to your instructions to, say, never change credentials over the phone, or however you wish to structure it. > And you tell me this was to protect me? ...In the same sense that the managers of public buildings' preference for you to piss yourself in public over cleaning formerly public restrooms is "for your protection".
- whyagaindavid 9y ago
  Did u have 2FA?
  - kuschku 9y ago
a9entroy 9y ago
> A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves "..those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
coliveira 9y ago
This answer shows exactly what is wrong with Google. People working there think they just "know" what is better for users without even having the trouble to talk to them. This is not the kind of company that I want to deal with as a customer.
- victorhooi 9y ago
  It's not about "knowing" better - it's about the fact that I like my job, and have not had clearance to comment publicly on the specifics. However, the general principals I stated do apply in many cases. Also - the author of that post has posted a reply: https://twitter.com/salilstatistics/status/899863971817238528 https://twitter.com/salilstatistics/status/89986397181723852...
  - sobani 9y ago
    I read that twitter reply as Without the huge stink that my prominence created, I would still be locked out. Also, I'm not allowed to talk about why I was banned (which would help others not get banned), nor how someone less notable could've gotten their life back.

WaylonKenning 9y ago

Pretty rough to not tell people what that 'very simple' thing is, and how deactivating their account through a terms of use violation is 'for the protection of users'. I think with great trust comes great responsibility, and Google is eroding this trust, as shown in this thread, with kafkaesque processes around account termination.

jtmcmc 9y ago
I doubt it's one simple thing but any number of simple things and they can't tell you for the fact that they like their job.
- victorhooi 9y ago
  Yes, I happen to like my job, so won't comment on specifics =). However, as a general principal, I've found that Google has very robust protections to protect users from both themselves, and from malicious outside forces. (Disclaimer: I work for Google).

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago

When your life is screwed up due to your primary google account of over a decade (that has god knows what all data, memories, contacts, brand association etc.) being shut down with little to no recourse, it does not matter that it was not nefarious or convoluted. It especially does not matter that it wasn't nefarious when Google isn't going to listen to you anyway unless you happen to write a blog post that happens to get viral in the right circles. It's not like there's a simple form that you can fill and which is reviewed and resolved in a few days reliably if your account gets deactivated by mistake. At that point you might as well be banging your head on a wall for all the good that will do.

chimeracoder 9y ago
> It's not like there's a simple form that you can fill and which is reviewed and resolved in a few days reliably if your account gets deactivated by mistake. Even a few days is unacceptable. There are times in my life where, if my Google Calendar, Google Docs, and email had all been shut off simultaneously, even for only a few days, I would have been completely fucked. Think travel, etc. I switched to a different email provider for this reason. (Remember that this also includes your phone, if you're on an Android device).
- Silhouette 9y ago
  (Remember that this also includes your phone, if you're on an Android device). Is that inherent in using Android, or only if you use Google's own apps and online storage for your calendar etc?
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    It's not inherent in AOSP, but it's true for most Android users.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  > Even a few days is unacceptable. There are times in my life where, if my Google Calendar, Google Docs, and email had all been shut off simultaneously, even for only a few days, I would have been completely fucked. Think travel, etc. If you want that level of service, maybe you shouldn't use a free product. You can have a free product, or you can have good, responsive, human customer service. You can't have both. If you chose a free product, be ready to handle the consequences of your decision like everybody else.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > If you want that level of service, maybe you shouldn't use a free product. ...did you not read the part where I said I switched to a different provider? And I was a paying customer - I had a Google Apps account, which comes with an annual fee for providing those services. Of course, the problem isn't about me personally - it's that so many other, less technically savvy people aren't aware of how vulnerable they are to this problem. They don't think about it until it happens to them. > You can have a free product, or you can have good, responsive, human customer service. You can't have both This dichotomy is both reductive and inapplicable. The problem, as explained in this thread, is that Google has a reputation for bad service, even for their paid offerings. It exists, which is more than can be said of the support for the free products, but it's still not good enough. And again, most customers aren't aware of the extent of this and its implications until it's too late.

Paul-ish 9y ago

This makes it sounds like someone (or some nation) was trying to break into the account.

justicezyx 9y ago

> 1. More often than not, it's not something nefarious or convoluted, but something very simple. Then let's not make them happen. > 2. A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves (whether from themselves or from outside forces). Please please please listen to customer and figure out how to protect them.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

kuschku 9y ago

> 1. More often than not, it's not something nefarious or convoluted, but something very simple. 2. A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves (whether from themselves or from outside forces). I recently had an issue where a hijacker, from another country, was able to take over my account and change the password, without access to the backup email, the SMS, or anything except the password. Google even mailed me a warning that this user from another country was accessing the account, and changing the password. When I tried to get it restored – I knew the phone number (but had no access anymore because the number was reassigned to another person), had the old password, access to backup email, knew the content of emails on the account, etc – I was denied. It was easier to get the user who got my old number, contact them, and go together with them through all the steps to get the account back. To top it even off, after I had contacted Google support about this originally, they never contacted me back – instead, once I recovered the account, I found that instead they had talked with the hijacker. And you tell me this was to protect me? Honestly, fuck that.

__jal 9y ago
Yep. Similar things have happened to people I know, and I recently went on a rampage, locking down a ton of things related to third parties due to someone attempting to get access to my accounts. A lot of people hate this answer, but do not entrust Google, Yahoo^H^H^H^H^HOath, or any other big free service with gatekeeper status to anything financial or, really, anything more important than chatting with pals. Host it with someone trustworthy; if that is not you or someone you personally trust, then someone you pay, who will listen to your instructions to, say, never change credentials over the phone, or however you wish to structure it. > And you tell me this was to protect me? ...In the same sense that the managers of public buildings' preference for you to piss yourself in public over cleaning formerly public restrooms is "for your protection".
whyagaindavid 9y ago
Did u have 2FA?
- kuschku 9y ago

a9entroy 9y ago

> A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves "..those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

coliveira 9y ago

This answer shows exactly what is wrong with Google. People working there think they just "know" what is better for users without even having the trouble to talk to them. This is not the kind of company that I want to deal with as a customer.

victorhooi 9y ago
It's not about "knowing" better - it's about the fact that I like my job, and have not had clearance to comment publicly on the specifics. However, the general principals I stated do apply in many cases. Also - the author of that post has posted a reply: https://twitter.com/salilstatistics/status/899863971817238528 https://twitter.com/salilstatistics/status/89986397181723852...
- sobani 9y ago
  I read that twitter reply as Without the huge stink that my prominence created, I would still be locked out. Also, I'm not allowed to talk about why I was banned (which would help others not get banned), nor how someone less notable could've gotten their life back.