3 ms·

"sexually assault women, have this all highlighted on national TV, and still end up president. " You mean Bill Clinton? I think you're misinterpreting societal

"sexually assault women, have this all highlighted on national TV, and still end up president. " You mean Bill Clinton? I think you're misinterpreting societal shame. Far east countries, as you call them, do have heavy shame and saving-face issues, but society as a whole recognizes that shame. In America, the shame is never-ending, and it's used as a weapon. It becomes less about a societal tool to punish bad behavior, than as a sick and twisted mechanism for one person, totally unrelated, to exact some harmful retribution.

nostrademons 9y ago
The "bankrupt 4 times" part is Donald Trump, obviously. "Sexually assault women" includes a number of American presidents, including Trump, Bill Clinton, JFK, Thomas Jefferson, and likely others, though only Clinton and Trump had it paraded through the media. I'm making a general statement about who the American people are willing to elect, one which has been proven over and over again. My other point is that when it's just one person, totally unrelated, trying to exact some harmful retribution on a person, that's not shame, that's vengeance. Shaming requires enough of a consensus that you can convince a person, in their own head, that they're a bad person. And this is easier to do with some people than others: I remember being bullied extensively as a teenager until I was convinced that I was worthless as a person, while now, in my 30s, I'd just think "Wow, those were some really fucked up kids that I never want to see again in my life." But in terms of actual objective consequences to these shaming episodes, in American society - they're pretty light, as long as the victim has enough inner strength to shrug it off and just find new people. Clinton and Trump both became president. Mel Gibson and John Downey Jr. are still making movies. Brendan Eich, another prominent case of an Internet shaming mob, ended up founding Brave and raising $40M via ICO. Andrew Torba got blacklisted by YC and virtually every Silicon Valley company, but Gab is the darling of the Breitbart crowd. Like I said in another comment, no matter how offensive your views, you can always find another American who shares them.
- BrendanEich 9y ago
  That John Downey Jr. is great as Captain Iron Man :-P. What happened with me resigning from Mozilla was something other than a shaming incident. Anyone aware of California Law, corporate governance, and Mozilla's CEO history who was paying attention should be able to figure it out.

nostrademons 9y ago

The "bankrupt 4 times" part is Donald Trump, obviously. "Sexually assault women" includes a number of American presidents, including Trump, Bill Clinton, JFK, Thomas Jefferson, and likely others, though only Clinton and Trump had it paraded through the media. I'm making a general statement about who the American people are willing to elect, one which has been proven over and over again. My other point is that when it's just one person, totally unrelated, trying to exact some harmful retribution on a person, that's not shame, that's vengeance. Shaming requires enough of a consensus that you can convince a person, in their own head, that they're a bad person. And this is easier to do with some people than others: I remember being bullied extensively as a teenager until I was convinced that I was worthless as a person, while now, in my 30s, I'd just think "Wow, those were some really fucked up kids that I never want to see again in my life." But in terms of actual objective consequences to these shaming episodes, in American society - they're pretty light, as long as the victim has enough inner strength to shrug it off and just find new people. Clinton and Trump both became president. Mel Gibson and John Downey Jr. are still making movies. Brendan Eich, another prominent case of an Internet shaming mob, ended up founding Brave and raising $40M via ICO. Andrew Torba got blacklisted by YC and virtually every Silicon Valley company, but Gab is the darling of the Breitbart crowd. Like I said in another comment, no matter how offensive your views, you can always find another American who shares them.

BrendanEich 9y ago
That John Downey Jr. is great as Captain Iron Man :-P. What happened with me resigning from Mozilla was something other than a shaming incident. Anyone aware of California Law, corporate governance, and Mozilla's CEO history who was paying attention should be able to figure it out.