8 ms·

Another big brother style invention. Wonderful. I'm sure they won't sell this info to the government at any point. My biggest issue, though, is the inequitab

Another big brother style invention. Wonderful. I'm sure they won't sell this info to the government at any point. My biggest issue, though, is the inequitable terms of tracking. If you live in a given neighborhood then you can opt out. Great. That gives those people preference. And treats everyone else as lesser citizens because they don't live there. We're talking about public spaces so there really shouldn't be any inequity. I think the company behind this sees the opt out ability for locals as the only way to make this palatable to people on a large scale. Also, how is "neighborhood" defined? I assume it's by them and has some radius or something like that. And I'm also fairly certain to opt out would require me creating an account and providing my name, address, and car info (at minimum). You want to record everything in public spaces? Fine, the law says you can do that so I respect that right. But that does not mean I am a fan of this by any stretch of the imagination. I feel like the real reason for this is something more nefarious they have planned later on - it could really be a way to finally track the remaining untrackables in our society who may be older and not have or use all the fancy tech we have today that tracks everything. It could also include people like myself that go to reasonable but not insane methods to circumvent tracking methods simply because I don't like to be tracked. There's really nothing I can do if they see me leave my house and drive to my friend's place and hang out there for 5 hours. Since I don't use social media they can't really connect that he and I are close friends without a tool like this. They can now make that association, which was previously near impossible to achieve.

jpollock 9y ago
In the US there are neighborhoods which are not freehold property, the owners are members in a Home Owner's Association (HOA). HOA's have significant powers, and are responsible for many things in the property, sometimes even roads and water. Gated communities fall into this class. So this camera would be targeting the HOA market, but not gated communities which have gates, locks and guards. Personally, I don't like HOAs, and I don't like private neighborhoods. To the point that I refuse to look at property with an HOA.
- turc1656 9y ago
  I also would never purchase an HOA property. They wield far too much power over what you can and cannot do with what you own and you can never leave the HOA as it is linked to the deed.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    You cannot leave the HOA, but you can get yourself elected to the leadership and systematically destroy all of its enforcement powers from the inside. But this obviously takes more effort than simply buying property that isn't subject to a HOA in the first place. Your state court system may also be able to clear restrictive covenants from your property if the HOA makes any mistakes in enforcement. That is highly dependent on your neighbors, so success is by no means guaranteed. A lot of HOAs can be brought to heel by threatening to erect antennas on your property, for the purposes of amateur radio communications and reception of broadcast signals. No covenant restricting those types of antennas is enforceable in the US, and most of the HOAs know it, or will know it shortly after consulting with a lawyer.
    - throwawaywonk 9y ago
      I hear HOA politics are so bitter because the stakes are so low. ;)
    - tyingq 9y ago
      A fair number of HOAs are voluntary, and have no actual teeth. You have to dig a little though, as they don't like stating that up front.
      - logfromblammo 9y ago
        For obvious reasons. Once people start referring you as the Nagging Committee, it's hard to walk back from that.
Overtonwindow 9y ago
The government already uses these devices. First, there's the ever-increasing use of license plate readers on patrol cars. These have spawned all over the place, not just on the cruisers, but also fixed points. Second, if you've ever driven on the Dulles Access Road from DC to Dulles Airport, sensors pickup the bluetooth ID of your tire pressure monitor, and other SIGINT/MASINT details. More cities are using SIGINT/MASINT technologies to gather all of that data. I can't tell you how I know this, but drive just about anywhere within 20 miles of DC and everything about you that is possible is processed, cataloged, cross-references, and stored.
- subway 9y ago
  TPM data usually isn't Bluetooth. It's usually an entirely different set of insecure protocols on either 433 or 315mhz.
- turc1656 9y ago
  I had never heard of anything like this! Thank you very much for this information. Luckily for me I drive an old car (definitely pre-bluetooth for sure) so that part wouldn't apply to me, but the increasing use of plate readers applies to everyone, everywhere.
  - Overtonwindow 9y ago
    There's an old book you might find interesting called "No Place to Hide" by Robert O'Harrow. If you do read it, try to keep in mind that it was written in 2004, and then consider how much innovation is likely to have taken place since then.
  - joering2 9y ago
    It doesn't matter what you drive. I cannot tell you where I know this from, but the newest top secret satellites launched recently from Florida will cover the whole US terrain with infrared scanners. Now, given every person has a different size of veins running under their skin in slightly different ways, there are no two people with the same configuration of blood circulation system. So unless you are wearing metal armor 24/7, you are being tracked and cataloged of when and how long you been. So please - update your tires to let your car know and to notify you when your pressure is low. It might safe your life!
AndrewKemendo 9y ago
I feel like the real reason for this is something more nefarious they have planned later on I would bet money that they will be using this system for mapping and tracking for autonomous cars driving the last mile. If you want to bootstrap that localized map, then you need to have a use case that is not driverless cars currently.
hammock 9y ago
The government already does this, in some areas on a blanket basis. This device puts the same data into the hands of citizens, evening the score. From that point of view it's a great thing.
- matt4077 9y ago
  So, you're saying that if the government hits you in the face, the right course of action is to also allow other citizens to hit you in the face?
aivijay 9y ago
Yes, they will not sell it now. But once everyone is into it thinking ahhh its a great idea and a great tool and share their private/public data though this. Then, these companies will turn around and sell your data to monetize on them which is the first thing any company is going to do.
- aivijay 9y ago
  And then, they will be billion dollar companies screwing mundane users data which they collect over time.
Danihan 9y ago
Everything's a panopticon, what could go wrong?

jpollock 9y ago

In the US there are neighborhoods which are not freehold property, the owners are members in a Home Owner's Association (HOA). HOA's have significant powers, and are responsible for many things in the property, sometimes even roads and water. Gated communities fall into this class. So this camera would be targeting the HOA market, but not gated communities which have gates, locks and guards. Personally, I don't like HOAs, and I don't like private neighborhoods. To the point that I refuse to look at property with an HOA.

turc1656 9y ago
I also would never purchase an HOA property. They wield far too much power over what you can and cannot do with what you own and you can never leave the HOA as it is linked to the deed.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  You cannot leave the HOA, but you can get yourself elected to the leadership and systematically destroy all of its enforcement powers from the inside. But this obviously takes more effort than simply buying property that isn't subject to a HOA in the first place. Your state court system may also be able to clear restrictive covenants from your property if the HOA makes any mistakes in enforcement. That is highly dependent on your neighbors, so success is by no means guaranteed. A lot of HOAs can be brought to heel by threatening to erect antennas on your property, for the purposes of amateur radio communications and reception of broadcast signals. No covenant restricting those types of antennas is enforceable in the US, and most of the HOAs know it, or will know it shortly after consulting with a lawyer.
  - throwawaywonk 9y ago
    I hear HOA politics are so bitter because the stakes are so low. ;)
  - tyingq 9y ago
    A fair number of HOAs are voluntary, and have no actual teeth. You have to dig a little though, as they don't like stating that up front.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      For obvious reasons. Once people start referring you as the Nagging Committee, it's hard to walk back from that.

Overtonwindow 9y ago

The government already uses these devices. First, there's the ever-increasing use of license plate readers on patrol cars. These have spawned all over the place, not just on the cruisers, but also fixed points. Second, if you've ever driven on the Dulles Access Road from DC to Dulles Airport, sensors pickup the bluetooth ID of your tire pressure monitor, and other SIGINT/MASINT details. More cities are using SIGINT/MASINT technologies to gather all of that data. I can't tell you how I know this, but drive just about anywhere within 20 miles of DC and everything about you that is possible is processed, cataloged, cross-references, and stored.

subway 9y ago
TPM data usually isn't Bluetooth. It's usually an entirely different set of insecure protocols on either 433 or 315mhz.
turc1656 9y ago
I had never heard of anything like this! Thank you very much for this information. Luckily for me I drive an old car (definitely pre-bluetooth for sure) so that part wouldn't apply to me, but the increasing use of plate readers applies to everyone, everywhere.
- Overtonwindow 9y ago
  There's an old book you might find interesting called "No Place to Hide" by Robert O'Harrow. If you do read it, try to keep in mind that it was written in 2004, and then consider how much innovation is likely to have taken place since then.
- joering2 9y ago
  It doesn't matter what you drive. I cannot tell you where I know this from, but the newest top secret satellites launched recently from Florida will cover the whole US terrain with infrared scanners. Now, given every person has a different size of veins running under their skin in slightly different ways, there are no two people with the same configuration of blood circulation system. So unless you are wearing metal armor 24/7, you are being tracked and cataloged of when and how long you been. So please - update your tires to let your car know and to notify you when your pressure is low. It might safe your life!

AndrewKemendo 9y ago

I feel like the real reason for this is something more nefarious they have planned later on I would bet money that they will be using this system for mapping and tracking for autonomous cars driving the last mile. If you want to bootstrap that localized map, then you need to have a use case that is not driverless cars currently.

hammock 9y ago

The government already does this, in some areas on a blanket basis. This device puts the same data into the hands of citizens, evening the score. From that point of view it's a great thing.

matt4077 9y ago
So, you're saying that if the government hits you in the face, the right course of action is to also allow other citizens to hit you in the face?

aivijay 9y ago

Yes, they will not sell it now. But once everyone is into it thinking ahhh its a great idea and a great tool and share their private/public data though this. Then, these companies will turn around and sell your data to monetize on them which is the first thing any company is going to do.

aivijay 9y ago
And then, they will be billion dollar companies screwing mundane users data which they collect over time.

Danihan 9y ago

Everything's a panopticon, what could go wrong?