3 ms·

I have no way of knowing how this may or may not compromise my privacy without a deep understanding of the techniques being used. I am meant to trust Mozilla an

I have no way of knowing how this may or may not compromise my privacy without a deep understanding of the techniques being used. I am meant to trust Mozilla and hope that they haven't overlooked some weakness in the algorithms used. The obvious security choice is to not add this feature in. The 'Provided this feature doesn't compromise anyone's privacy' is a fantasy, because no-one can be sure of that.

Ajedi32 9y ago
But that's true of _any_ new feature that gets added to Firefox. Anytime you change code, there's a chance you could be creating a new vulnerability that compromises users' privacy or security in some way. If, as some commenters here [have suggested][1], this telemetry would help improve Firefox by significantly reducing the amount of time it takes Mozilla to fix bugs and performance issues in the browser, what makes you think that's not worth the risk when other features (such as the performance fixes themselves) are? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15072157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15072157
- joosters 9y ago
  It's obviously far, far more likely in code that is designed to send my browsing habits to a 3rd party (in whatever encoding). Do you not see this, or are you just trying to extend out these arguments to some ridiculous extreme for the sake of it?
  - Ajedi32 9y ago
    I don't know what level of risk this implementation carries with it. Probably more than a performance fix to the JavaScript interpreter, yes, but is it really a significant enough risk to make this feature not worth implementing? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't; I honestly don't know. You just seemed to be arguing that _any_ amount of risk would be too much, which in my view is ridiculous since, as I said, all new features carry with them some amount of risk.
    - joosters 9y ago
      You just seemed to be arguing that _any_ amount of risk would be too much Unfortunately that's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about, extending arguments to ridiculous extremes. I have never said any amount of risk would be too much. In this particular instance, I think the risk and the unknowns are clearly too much.
      - Ajedi32 9y ago
        > In this particular instance, I think the risk and the unknowns are clearly too much. But why? I don't claim to know enough about RAPPOR to say for sure that the risk _is_ worth it, but it seems a little presumptuous to claim it isn't without knowing _anything_ about the project or Mozilla's proposed use of it. That's why I assumed you were arguing that _any_ amount of risk would be too much; you didn't include any sort of analysis of the risk/reward in your previous comments, and without knowing the risk the only way to conclude this feature is definitely _not_ worth it would be if you already considered the acceptable level of risk to be zero.
  - tormeh 9y ago
    Well, the alternative is not a Firefox without telemetry, it's Chrome. If Firefox can't do what it needs to do to stay relevant it's going to die. Developers are already treating Firefox as a second class browser, so this is not an abstract threat.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      If I want a browser with telemetry, I can just as well use Chrome. It’s Firefox without telemetry, or no Firefox at all.

Ajedi32 9y ago

But that's true of _any_ new feature that gets added to Firefox. Anytime you change code, there's a chance you could be creating a new vulnerability that compromises users' privacy or security in some way. If, as some commenters here [have suggested][1], this telemetry would help improve Firefox by significantly reducing the amount of time it takes Mozilla to fix bugs and performance issues in the browser, what makes you think that's not worth the risk when other features (such as the performance fixes themselves) are? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15072157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15072157

joosters 9y ago
It's obviously far, far more likely in code that is designed to send my browsing habits to a 3rd party (in whatever encoding). Do you not see this, or are you just trying to extend out these arguments to some ridiculous extreme for the sake of it?
- Ajedi32 9y ago
  I don't know what level of risk this implementation carries with it. Probably more than a performance fix to the JavaScript interpreter, yes, but is it really a significant enough risk to make this feature not worth implementing? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't; I honestly don't know. You just seemed to be arguing that _any_ amount of risk would be too much, which in my view is ridiculous since, as I said, all new features carry with them some amount of risk.
  - joosters 9y ago
    You just seemed to be arguing that _any_ amount of risk would be too much Unfortunately that's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about, extending arguments to ridiculous extremes. I have never said any amount of risk would be too much. In this particular instance, I think the risk and the unknowns are clearly too much.
    - Ajedi32 9y ago
      > In this particular instance, I think the risk and the unknowns are clearly too much. But why? I don't claim to know enough about RAPPOR to say for sure that the risk _is_ worth it, but it seems a little presumptuous to claim it isn't without knowing _anything_ about the project or Mozilla's proposed use of it. That's why I assumed you were arguing that _any_ amount of risk would be too much; you didn't include any sort of analysis of the risk/reward in your previous comments, and without knowing the risk the only way to conclude this feature is definitely _not_ worth it would be if you already considered the acceptable level of risk to be zero.
- tormeh 9y ago
  Well, the alternative is not a Firefox without telemetry, it's Chrome. If Firefox can't do what it needs to do to stay relevant it's going to die. Developers are already treating Firefox as a second class browser, so this is not an abstract threat.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    If I want a browser with telemetry, I can just as well use Chrome. It’s Firefox without telemetry, or no Firefox at all.