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I never said anything should be prevented. But you just illustrated my point exactly. Gold (and cryptocurrencies) cannot support a market economy because of the

I never said anything should be prevented. But you just illustrated my point exactly. Gold (and cryptocurrencies) cannot support a market economy because of the problem of hoarding a limited resource and the lack of representation of debt. Even the ancients knew this: they would require taxes be paid in the _coin of the realm,_ not just gold. Requiring this made it possible for monarchs to facilitate a market economy. They paid their soldiers in the coin. The peasants traded with the soldiers in order to pay their taxes. Markets emerged from this.

CyberDildonics 9y ago
> Gold (and cryptocurrencies) cannot support a market economy because of the problem of hoarding a limited resource and the lack of representation of debt. That's a bold claim to throw out there with nothing to back it up. Gold has been used as a currency for thousands of years. Crypto-currencies are out there working whether you like it or not. To say that they can't work is pretty silly when they are literally working right now. > they would require taxes be paid in the _coin of the realm First, you should source this since it sounds like you are talking about a specific country at a specific time in history. Those were usually made of gold and silver. Why do you think coins have cleated edges? It's so people can shave them off without someone knowing. Also countries used gold to transact between each other, no matter what they tried to press on their citizens. The longest any fiat currency has lasted is around 300 years, most don't last 50. Our current world wide currency system is only about 40 years old. The transition came after Charles DeGualle started to reclaim France's gold after the Vietnam war because he feared the US didn't have enough gold to redeem their dollars. Nixon was forced to take the US off the gold standard completely and our current system was born.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Gold has been used as a currency for thousands of years. But not supporting a robust market economy until it (and other metals) were reduced primarily to accounting units for many transactions, so the real “currency” was, in substantial parts, debt instruments, not actual gold. I mean, this is true even in emergent pre-capitalist market economies, which were fueled by (and fueled, in a positive feedback loop) the development of banking. There is a huge difference between a commodity currency like gold and a commodity-backed currency like gold-denominated debt instruments.
- lloyd-christmas 9y ago
  Cowry[0] is an even better example than gold. It predates gold coinage, and was used between 3000BC[1] all the way to the 19th century[2] as a cross-culture currency throughout the world. Its scientific name is even Monetaria moneta. [0] http://www.conchsoc.org/interests/shell-money.php http://www.conchsoc.org/interests/shell-money.php [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money#History [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetaria_moneta#As_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetaria_moneta#As_money
- nickbauman 9y ago
  The "Coin of the Realm" source: Page 49 of Debt, The First 5000 Years by David Graeber. https://libcom.org/files/__Debt__The_First_5_000_Years.pdf https://libcom.org/files/__Debt__The_First_5_000_Years.pdf
  - CyberDildonics 9y ago
    I'm not really in a position to read a 540 page pdf right now, maybe you should pick a line you like.
    - nickbauman 9y ago
      I did.
- nickbauman 9y ago
  The hoarding problem source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/07/26/the-fundamental-conflict-at-the-heart-of-bitcoin/2/#26b4bc375aac https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/07/26/the-f...
  - CyberDildonics 9y ago
    That's one person's opinion and prediction of the future, the same as yours. It is not proof or even evidence of anything. Cryptocurrencies literally work right now. People that keep saying a currency that doesn't have a central authority leeching off of it by printing more and using it however they want perplex me. If all else was equal, would you choose to put your money in a currency that continues to be worth less and less or a currency where that is designed to not be devalued? You can say it won't work all you want, but when people have a choice of what currency to use, they aren't going to choose one that is meant to inflate. The only reason people use inflationary currencies is because they don't have a choice.
    - nickbauman 9y ago
      Oh this is only one citation, my friend. There are many other economists that have studied this phenomenon, even if they haven't applied it to cryptocurrencies.
      - CyberDildonics 9y ago
        You can find people who will say anything about the future, it doesn't make them right or their thoughts well reasoned. Paul Krugman said the internet was worthless and more recently that Bitcoin is worthless. You need to connect the dots and explain yourself, which you don't seem to be doing.

CyberDildonics 9y ago

> Gold (and cryptocurrencies) cannot support a market economy because of the problem of hoarding a limited resource and the lack of representation of debt. That's a bold claim to throw out there with nothing to back it up. Gold has been used as a currency for thousands of years. Crypto-currencies are out there working whether you like it or not. To say that they can't work is pretty silly when they are literally working right now. > they would require taxes be paid in the _coin of the realm First, you should source this since it sounds like you are talking about a specific country at a specific time in history. Those were usually made of gold and silver. Why do you think coins have cleated edges? It's so people can shave them off without someone knowing. Also countries used gold to transact between each other, no matter what they tried to press on their citizens. The longest any fiat currency has lasted is around 300 years, most don't last 50. Our current world wide currency system is only about 40 years old. The transition came after Charles DeGualle started to reclaim France's gold after the Vietnam war because he feared the US didn't have enough gold to redeem their dollars. Nixon was forced to take the US off the gold standard completely and our current system was born.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Gold has been used as a currency for thousands of years. But not supporting a robust market economy until it (and other metals) were reduced primarily to accounting units for many transactions, so the real “currency” was, in substantial parts, debt instruments, not actual gold. I mean, this is true even in emergent pre-capitalist market economies, which were fueled by (and fueled, in a positive feedback loop) the development of banking. There is a huge difference between a commodity currency like gold and a commodity-backed currency like gold-denominated debt instruments.
lloyd-christmas 9y ago
Cowry[0] is an even better example than gold. It predates gold coinage, and was used between 3000BC[1] all the way to the 19th century[2] as a cross-culture currency throughout the world. Its scientific name is even Monetaria moneta. [0] http://www.conchsoc.org/interests/shell-money.php http://www.conchsoc.org/interests/shell-money.php [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money#History [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetaria_moneta#As_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetaria_moneta#As_money
nickbauman 9y ago
The "Coin of the Realm" source: Page 49 of Debt, The First 5000 Years by David Graeber. https://libcom.org/files/__Debt__The_First_5_000_Years.pdf https://libcom.org/files/__Debt__The_First_5_000_Years.pdf
- CyberDildonics 9y ago
  I'm not really in a position to read a 540 page pdf right now, maybe you should pick a line you like.
  - nickbauman 9y ago
    I did.
nickbauman 9y ago
The hoarding problem source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/07/26/the-fundamental-conflict-at-the-heart-of-bitcoin/2/#26b4bc375aac https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/07/26/the-f...
- CyberDildonics 9y ago
  That's one person's opinion and prediction of the future, the same as yours. It is not proof or even evidence of anything. Cryptocurrencies literally work right now. People that keep saying a currency that doesn't have a central authority leeching off of it by printing more and using it however they want perplex me. If all else was equal, would you choose to put your money in a currency that continues to be worth less and less or a currency where that is designed to not be devalued? You can say it won't work all you want, but when people have a choice of what currency to use, they aren't going to choose one that is meant to inflate. The only reason people use inflationary currencies is because they don't have a choice.
  - nickbauman 9y ago
    Oh this is only one citation, my friend. There are many other economists that have studied this phenomenon, even if they haven't applied it to cryptocurrencies.
    - CyberDildonics 9y ago
      You can find people who will say anything about the future, it doesn't make them right or their thoughts well reasoned. Paul Krugman said the internet was worthless and more recently that Bitcoin is worthless. You need to connect the dots and explain yourself, which you don't seem to be doing.