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Company A does bad thing which benefits them massively, allowing them to have a better product. Some people dislike that approach and flock to company B which p

Company A does bad thing which benefits them massively, allowing them to have a better product. Some people dislike that approach and flock to company B which promises not to do the bad thing. Now company B start doing the same thing 'for better good' but promises to 'keep it moderate'. At this point why would anyone stay with the company B which broke its promise once, just in the hope that it won't break the promise again? It has already lost the trustworthiness and it also has the worse product. Might as well use products from company A.

eridius 9y ago
This is specious reasoning. Company B is not doing "the same thing" at all. Company B is collecting data, but not only is it far more limited (e.g. collecting domains instead of URLs), it's done in a way that protects privacy. You can't just throw up your hands and say "well, they're collecting some data, therefore we may as well just throw away all privacy protections and use the browser by the company whose business model is based on collecting all the personal information they possibly can". Privacy is not a boolean.
- kuschku 9y ago
  Opt-Out vs Opt-In is a question of consent. Do you value your own benefits more than my own right to determine my own life? If yes (and that’s what you get when you choose opt-out), then we’re done. There is no gradual change there, it’s a binary question if you value the user or your own benefit more.
  - eridius 9y ago
    The world is not black & white. If Firefox starts collecting a small amount of data in a privacy-sensitive manner and makes it opt-out, that does not at al make it equivalent to e.g. Google collecting all the user data it can.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      But it means they have an equal value system: Convenience being always more important than Privacy. And that’s strictly incompatible with mine.
      - eridius 9y ago
        Except that's not true. Firefox collecting a small amount of data in a privacy-aware manner does not mean "convenience being always more important than privacy", not by a long shot. I don't understand why you're insisting on such an absolute black & white viewpoint.
        kuschku 9y ago
        Firefox being so arrogant to presume I want to collect the data by default is a very rude thing. You don’t just assume someone wants it, and do it for them, especially if it might hurt them. First ask, then fuck up. Is that concept so hard to understand? If you’d do that IRL to someone they’d never talk to you again, it’s the same with Firefox if they do this.
        eridius 9y ago
        Firefox collecting data in of itself isn't at all rude, or problematic. Nobody cares if Mozilla has "data". What they care about is if they collect data that violates the user's privacy. The whole point of RAPPOR and differential privacy is it's an approach to collecting data that is supposed to preserve user privacy. So the real question is, does it preserve user privacy sufficiently that it's ok to make something opt-out instead of opt-in? But that's not what you're complaining about, you're just ranting because they're collecting data, period, without actually understanding the extent to which your privacy is being violated (if at all). And of course this all started with you saying that you may as well switch to another company's products, a company which you know violates your privacy quite significantly. You still haven't explained why Firefox collecting a small amount of data in a way that tries to minimize any privacy violations means you should just give up any semblance of privacy and use a product that tries to collect as much personal information as possible.

eridius 9y ago

This is specious reasoning. Company B is not doing "the same thing" at all. Company B is collecting data, but not only is it far more limited (e.g. collecting domains instead of URLs), it's done in a way that protects privacy. You can't just throw up your hands and say "well, they're collecting some data, therefore we may as well just throw away all privacy protections and use the browser by the company whose business model is based on collecting all the personal information they possibly can". Privacy is not a boolean.

kuschku 9y ago
Opt-Out vs Opt-In is a question of consent. Do you value your own benefits more than my own right to determine my own life? If yes (and that’s what you get when you choose opt-out), then we’re done. There is no gradual change there, it’s a binary question if you value the user or your own benefit more.
- eridius 9y ago
  The world is not black & white. If Firefox starts collecting a small amount of data in a privacy-sensitive manner and makes it opt-out, that does not at al make it equivalent to e.g. Google collecting all the user data it can.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    But it means they have an equal value system: Convenience being always more important than Privacy. And that’s strictly incompatible with mine.
    - eridius 9y ago
      Except that's not true. Firefox collecting a small amount of data in a privacy-aware manner does not mean "convenience being always more important than privacy", not by a long shot. I don't understand why you're insisting on such an absolute black & white viewpoint.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        Firefox being so arrogant to presume I want to collect the data by default is a very rude thing. You don’t just assume someone wants it, and do it for them, especially if it might hurt them. First ask, then fuck up. Is that concept so hard to understand? If you’d do that IRL to someone they’d never talk to you again, it’s the same with Firefox if they do this.
        eridius 9y ago
        Firefox collecting data in of itself isn't at all rude, or problematic. Nobody cares if Mozilla has "data". What they care about is if they collect data that violates the user's privacy. The whole point of RAPPOR and differential privacy is it's an approach to collecting data that is supposed to preserve user privacy. So the real question is, does it preserve user privacy sufficiently that it's ok to make something opt-out instead of opt-in? But that's not what you're complaining about, you're just ranting because they're collecting data, period, without actually understanding the extent to which your privacy is being violated (if at all). And of course this all started with you saying that you may as well switch to another company's products, a company which you know violates your privacy quite significantly. You still haven't explained why Firefox collecting a small amount of data in a way that tries to minimize any privacy violations means you should just give up any semblance of privacy and use a product that tries to collect as much personal information as possible.