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I'm one of the biggest AoE2 fans out there-- it's my favorite game of all time and I've played thousands of games of it. I also loved the original AoE and the r

I'm one of the biggest AoE2 fans out there-- it's my favorite game of all time and I've played thousands of games of it. I also loved the original AoE and the related Age of Mythology. In spite of that, I feel this is nothing to be excited about. Age of Empires 1 & 2 were special because they were designed by a special team at a company called Ensemble Studios, which was bought by Microsoft and sadly shut down in 2009. None of that team remain with Microsoft. AoE4 is being developed by Relic, a company with no track record to speak of.* It has nothing in common with the game many of us know and love other than the title. It is extremely unlikely to have the depth, nuance, replayability, and well-thought out design that made the original franchise a hit. In place of those things, it's likely to have shockingly poor multiplayer integration through the Windows store as Microsoft inevitably rejects Steam integration, and god knows what other modern problems like microtransactions. Frankly I feel there's very little to be hyped about here. And god do I ever hope I'm wrong. *They made some decent games 15 years ago. How many of those designers and developers are still with the company now? How many will be working on AoE4? And were their best games good enough that they're still so beloved that they merit re-releases, new expansions, and definitive editions 20 years later? I don't think so...

NhanH 9y ago
If that is the same Relic that made the Company of Heroes series, then they do got quite a bit of track record: the series is extremely well made, and stands amongs the greatest of strategy games. They weren't too popular for several reasons, biggest one the decline of strategy games in general. But it seems like AoE is in good hands
lackbeard 9y ago
Not sure how you can say Relic has no track record... Homeworld, Dawn of War, and Company of Heroes were all very successful games.
- dkhenry 9y ago
  Their early track record was fantastic, but recently they have shifted to less then great strategy games chasing after the professional gaming market.
- Mithaldu 9y ago
  Company of Heroes wasn't even really their own merit. They copied a russian game series (Soldiers: Heroes of World War 2) and simplified the gameplay.
  - lackbeard 9y ago
    That's a perfectly valid way to make a game and doesn't detract from how good or bad it is. Choosing what parts to keep and what parts to remove and then executing is not obvious or easy. You could say the exact same thing about League of Legends and a lot of other games.
    - Mithaldu 9y ago
      Right, i wasn't entirely clear on what the implications of this are. You said they have a good track record. The current context of the thread is the revival of a game series 12 years after its last entry. This means they'll need to do a vast amount of work in updating both the graphics and the gameplay in order to produce a worthwhile successor. (Note worthwhile and good are not the same. It's entirely possible to make a good game that won't be worthwhile for a large portion of the possible audience.) One of the examples you cite towards their track records is a game that had success, but was built in a completely different way from what they do now. (Immediately after the inspiration thus not requiring a leap in graphics; and gameplay-wise with a smaller feature set.) Thus it doesn't seem to me that Company of Heroes is a particularly useful indicator for what they'll do with AoE 4. (Edit: Also, tbh, due to what S:HOWW2 is (in simple terms, multiple games combined), the decisions of which parts to keep were trivial. I don't want to go into detail here as the post is already big enough, but i recommend investigation of the details.)
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  Not to mention Homeworld is one of the greatest games of all time...
  - aerovistae 9y ago
    As I said in another comment, does that matter? Homeworld is from 1999. How many people who worked at Relic in 1999 are going to be working on AoE4? My guess is zero.
    - aaron-lebo 9y ago
      Was just saying Homeworld is really great, and that manual. I agree with you.
nxsynonym 9y ago
Good points. But to be fair I feel this way about 99% of the games being developed over the past few years. Huge marketing budgets, big flashy announcement trailers, followed by repetitive delays, pay-walled content, and broken games at launch. As much as I love the AoE franchise, I doubt this is the comeback everyone thinks it is. Game studios don't make good games anymore, they create and sell hype, and we keep buying into it.
- baby 9y ago
  Except for a few ones. Naughty Dog comes to my mind. Everything they have produced have been consistently good. I'm following the ex team of infinity wards as well (haven't played titan fall but heard good things). Nintendo always produce good flagship games. What else can be praised out there?
  - nxsynonym 9y ago
    Yeah I mean there has been a fem gems, but it's a small fraction of the crap that's released. The bigger point is that there's no incentive to release polished, finalized games. People will pay for it either way, based on hype alone.
  - tapoxi 9y ago
    Blizzard. Their last two games (Overwatch, Hearthstone) were incredible. I think their only mediocre game was Diablo III, but they actively worked to fix it.
    - baby 9y ago
      I wanted to include Blizzard but I'm too sour over Diablo III :/
  - InitialLastName 9y ago
    Paradox Development and (the associated) Colossal Order have repeatedly produced some fantastic games. Paradox's grand strategy games (Crusader Kings II, EU 4 and Victoria, among others) are absurdly deep and have a really broad play style continuum. Cities:Skylines definitely has its flaws, but it handily took the torch from the fumbling wasteland of SimCity 2013. Edit: To add, both series/companies do a great job of using their DLC to add actual, refreshing content to the game. That's a big win in my book over "Buy this new hat!"
emptyfile 9y ago
Relic has a great track record, but unfortunately the last great RTS they made was Company of Heroes 11 years ago, and the last good RTS was Dawn of War II 7 years ago. Their last 2 games (Company of Heroes 2, Dawn of War III) were not nearly as good and were not well recieved, basically rehashes of past series aimed at an audience that doesn't play RTS games anymore. Pretty sad considering they're pretty much the last old RTS developer still alive, and almost no one new is making RTS games.
- frik 9y ago
  Relic is know for Real Time Tactic, not Real Time Strategy (RTS) games. Guess what AoE series was - RTS. Base building and mass of units are part of AoE RTS gameplay. Relic with it's Halo 2 casual game, no free base building and it card trading elements is NOT a good record.
masklinn 9y ago
> Age of Empires 1 & 2 were special because they were designed by a special team at a company called Ensemble Studios, which was bought by Microsoft and sadly shut down in 2009. None of that team remain with Microsoft. Ensemble also made AoE3 which I loathed and Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds which was a bit of a turd. Also note that Microsoft acquired Ensemble in 2001, during the development cycle of Age of Mythology (which was phenomenal), so an independent Relic could be as good as or better than an internal Ensemble.
- aerovistae 9y ago
  > Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds was developed by LucasArts by licensing the Genie game engine from Ensemble Studios. The game, as well as the Clone Campaigns expansion pack, was designed and directed by Garry M. Gaber. Taken from Wikipedia. Garry M. Gaber worked at LucasArts. Ensemble had nothing to do with SW:GB. But yes, I agree about AoE3.
52-6F-62 9y ago
One of the first things I did went I added a PC to my household (for programming a VR project and... to play games. Also my girlfriend didn't have a computer of her own at the time) was dug out an old copy of AoE2 get it going. I think I was up until 5 am that night, and I'm not normally an overnight gamer. In fact I treat it like ice cream and try to not get sucked in very much. I do hope you're wrong, too. The seeming story of the person asking Mr. Gates for a new release is pretty charming, and will continue to be if they nail it.
revelation 9y ago
Maybe they are trying to catch on with the LoL/DotA type of game. If they don't make too many mistakes that could be a good game. Now if they are just trying to make another Age of Empires, that's liable to ending in shambles.
frik 9y ago
"AoE4 is being developed by Relic Entertainment, which previously worked on the Company of Heroes and Dawn of War serie" Exactly. Relic has no track record of RTS games. Real a Time Strategy (RTS) is completely different to Real Time Tactic games, the later Relic has experience with. The Halo 2 game was a casual one with even card game elements and dumbed down gameplay (no free base building, etc). Not on Steam - not gonna playing it. Sorry but no thanks to UWP Store. The last AoE is III, from the awesome Ensemble Studio.

NhanH 9y ago

If that is the same Relic that made the Company of Heroes series, then they do got quite a bit of track record: the series is extremely well made, and stands amongs the greatest of strategy games. They weren't too popular for several reasons, biggest one the decline of strategy games in general. But it seems like AoE is in good hands

lackbeard 9y ago

Not sure how you can say Relic has no track record... Homeworld, Dawn of War, and Company of Heroes were all very successful games.

dkhenry 9y ago
Their early track record was fantastic, but recently they have shifted to less then great strategy games chasing after the professional gaming market.
Mithaldu 9y ago
Company of Heroes wasn't even really their own merit. They copied a russian game series (Soldiers: Heroes of World War 2) and simplified the gameplay.
- lackbeard 9y ago
  That's a perfectly valid way to make a game and doesn't detract from how good or bad it is. Choosing what parts to keep and what parts to remove and then executing is not obvious or easy. You could say the exact same thing about League of Legends and a lot of other games.
  - Mithaldu 9y ago
    Right, i wasn't entirely clear on what the implications of this are. You said they have a good track record. The current context of the thread is the revival of a game series 12 years after its last entry. This means they'll need to do a vast amount of work in updating both the graphics and the gameplay in order to produce a worthwhile successor. (Note worthwhile and good are not the same. It's entirely possible to make a good game that won't be worthwhile for a large portion of the possible audience.) One of the examples you cite towards their track records is a game that had success, but was built in a completely different way from what they do now. (Immediately after the inspiration thus not requiring a leap in graphics; and gameplay-wise with a smaller feature set.) Thus it doesn't seem to me that Company of Heroes is a particularly useful indicator for what they'll do with AoE 4. (Edit: Also, tbh, due to what S:HOWW2 is (in simple terms, multiple games combined), the decisions of which parts to keep were trivial. I don't want to go into detail here as the post is already big enough, but i recommend investigation of the details.)
aaron-lebo 9y ago
Not to mention Homeworld is one of the greatest games of all time...
- aerovistae 9y ago
  As I said in another comment, does that matter? Homeworld is from 1999. How many people who worked at Relic in 1999 are going to be working on AoE4? My guess is zero.
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    Was just saying Homeworld is really great, and that manual. I agree with you.

nxsynonym 9y ago

Good points. But to be fair I feel this way about 99% of the games being developed over the past few years. Huge marketing budgets, big flashy announcement trailers, followed by repetitive delays, pay-walled content, and broken games at launch. As much as I love the AoE franchise, I doubt this is the comeback everyone thinks it is. Game studios don't make good games anymore, they create and sell hype, and we keep buying into it.

baby 9y ago
Except for a few ones. Naughty Dog comes to my mind. Everything they have produced have been consistently good. I'm following the ex team of infinity wards as well (haven't played titan fall but heard good things). Nintendo always produce good flagship games. What else can be praised out there?
- nxsynonym 9y ago
  Yeah I mean there has been a fem gems, but it's a small fraction of the crap that's released. The bigger point is that there's no incentive to release polished, finalized games. People will pay for it either way, based on hype alone.
- tapoxi 9y ago
  Blizzard. Their last two games (Overwatch, Hearthstone) were incredible. I think their only mediocre game was Diablo III, but they actively worked to fix it.
  - baby 9y ago
    I wanted to include Blizzard but I'm too sour over Diablo III :/
- InitialLastName 9y ago
  Paradox Development and (the associated) Colossal Order have repeatedly produced some fantastic games. Paradox's grand strategy games (Crusader Kings II, EU 4 and Victoria, among others) are absurdly deep and have a really broad play style continuum. Cities:Skylines definitely has its flaws, but it handily took the torch from the fumbling wasteland of SimCity 2013. Edit: To add, both series/companies do a great job of using their DLC to add actual, refreshing content to the game. That's a big win in my book over "Buy this new hat!"

emptyfile 9y ago

Relic has a great track record, but unfortunately the last great RTS they made was Company of Heroes 11 years ago, and the last good RTS was Dawn of War II 7 years ago. Their last 2 games (Company of Heroes 2, Dawn of War III) were not nearly as good and were not well recieved, basically rehashes of past series aimed at an audience that doesn't play RTS games anymore. Pretty sad considering they're pretty much the last old RTS developer still alive, and almost no one new is making RTS games.

frik 9y ago
Relic is know for Real Time Tactic, not Real Time Strategy (RTS) games. Guess what AoE series was - RTS. Base building and mass of units are part of AoE RTS gameplay. Relic with it's Halo 2 casual game, no free base building and it card trading elements is NOT a good record.

masklinn 9y ago

> Age of Empires 1 & 2 were special because they were designed by a special team at a company called Ensemble Studios, which was bought by Microsoft and sadly shut down in 2009. None of that team remain with Microsoft. Ensemble also made AoE3 which I loathed and Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds which was a bit of a turd. Also note that Microsoft acquired Ensemble in 2001, during the development cycle of Age of Mythology (which was phenomenal), so an independent Relic could be as good as or better than an internal Ensemble.

aerovistae 9y ago
> Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds was developed by LucasArts by licensing the Genie game engine from Ensemble Studios. The game, as well as the Clone Campaigns expansion pack, was designed and directed by Garry M. Gaber. Taken from Wikipedia. Garry M. Gaber worked at LucasArts. Ensemble had nothing to do with SW:GB. But yes, I agree about AoE3.

52-6F-62 9y ago

One of the first things I did went I added a PC to my household (for programming a VR project and... to play games. Also my girlfriend didn't have a computer of her own at the time) was dug out an old copy of AoE2 get it going. I think I was up until 5 am that night, and I'm not normally an overnight gamer. In fact I treat it like ice cream and try to not get sucked in very much. I do hope you're wrong, too. The seeming story of the person asking Mr. Gates for a new release is pretty charming, and will continue to be if they nail it.

revelation 9y ago

Maybe they are trying to catch on with the LoL/DotA type of game. If they don't make too many mistakes that could be a good game. Now if they are just trying to make another Age of Empires, that's liable to ending in shambles.

frik 9y ago

"AoE4 is being developed by Relic Entertainment, which previously worked on the Company of Heroes and Dawn of War serie" Exactly. Relic has no track record of RTS games. Real a Time Strategy (RTS) is completely different to Real Time Tactic games, the later Relic has experience with. The Halo 2 game was a casual one with even card game elements and dumbed down gameplay (no free base building, etc). Not on Steam - not gonna playing it. Sorry but no thanks to UWP Store. The last AoE is III, from the awesome Ensemble Studio.