12 ms·

> I would say if unit tests, build systems, documentation, abstractions, modern languages, and so on are valuable for productivity, reduced bugginess or ease of

> I would say if unit tests, build systems, documentation, abstractions, modern languages, and so on are valuable for productivity, reduced bugginess or ease of access for the next developers then the incentives exist for academic researchers to learn and use these tools. The time to learn all of this is almost like a field in itself say Software engineering. I just need to get shit done. I had a project to do bayesian hierarchical modeling. I wrote it from scratch in R without using a MCMC framework. Yeah it's ugly, yeah it's slow. But I got initial results to satisfy my mentor and within the time limit of the summer internship. This is on top of learning two semesters worth of Bayesian statistic in 3-4 weeks. Time isn't expendable and I can't devote my life to every single thing while neglecting other aspect (love, health, etc..). Yeah your theory is nice only if you don't have a deadline, a life outside of work, etc...

BeetleB 9y ago
>Yeah your theory is nice only if you don't have a deadline, a life outside of work, etc... Not all academic disciplines are as hectic as yours. When I was in a top grad school, most of my colleagues were not under the stress you describe. And yet their code was still crap. Incentives are a bigger reason than workload.
- Balgair 9y ago
  > When I was in a top grad school, most of my colleagues were not under the stress you describe. Serious questions: Where was this amazing place? When were you there? Was it a STEMish PhD? Really. I've never heard of a grad school in STEM these days that is anywhere near like that. I'd love to know because the way STEM PhDs are going in the US these days, I can't recommend them in general, only specific PIs and labs.
  - BeetleB 9y ago
    >Serious questions: Where was this amazing place? When were you there? Was it a STEMish PhD? Really. Yes. Engineering. I don't like to reveal too much about my past, so I won't say the name. Suffice it to say that it's ranked in the top 10 for pretty much all engineering + many of the sciences. EE, CE and CS are all in the top 5. It was a decade ago, though. Workload all depended on your advisor and funding landscape. Some were very demanding, and they had miserable lives (mostly pointless, too - most of academia seems to be converging towards a race to the bottom). But not all professors were that way. Of course, standards still have to be met, and laid back professors' students usually took longer to get a PhD because they were more relaxed. To give you an idea, two of my fellow group mates are now faculty members. And the one whose work was most like what you describe, and who did the best work IMO, never was able to secure a tenure track position. The lifestyle you describe is really not worth the PhD you get in the end. The ROI is just not there - financially or otherwise.
    - Balgair 9y ago
      It really does seem like luck is the thing, even in something like the ivory tower. It stinks, but all that hard work is the price of the lotto ticket; it still ends up being just plain luck in the end. I also feel like it's a race to the bottom now. It used to be 'publish or perish', now it's 'funding or famine'. The paper numbers, impact, and truthfulness have nothing to do with anything. I see so many PIs that essentially end up as one income households, their spouse's, not their own. The 'good ones' just get pushed out or leave, an evaporative effect, leaving only the liars. The academy is in real trouble these days. It isn't on life support yet, but it's not able to climb the stairs anymore.

BeetleB 9y ago

>Yeah your theory is nice only if you don't have a deadline, a life outside of work, etc... Not all academic disciplines are as hectic as yours. When I was in a top grad school, most of my colleagues were not under the stress you describe. And yet their code was still crap. Incentives are a bigger reason than workload.

Balgair 9y ago
> When I was in a top grad school, most of my colleagues were not under the stress you describe. Serious questions: Where was this amazing place? When were you there? Was it a STEMish PhD? Really. I've never heard of a grad school in STEM these days that is anywhere near like that. I'd love to know because the way STEM PhDs are going in the US these days, I can't recommend them in general, only specific PIs and labs.
- BeetleB 9y ago
  >Serious questions: Where was this amazing place? When were you there? Was it a STEMish PhD? Really. Yes. Engineering. I don't like to reveal too much about my past, so I won't say the name. Suffice it to say that it's ranked in the top 10 for pretty much all engineering + many of the sciences. EE, CE and CS are all in the top 5. It was a decade ago, though. Workload all depended on your advisor and funding landscape. Some were very demanding, and they had miserable lives (mostly pointless, too - most of academia seems to be converging towards a race to the bottom). But not all professors were that way. Of course, standards still have to be met, and laid back professors' students usually took longer to get a PhD because they were more relaxed. To give you an idea, two of my fellow group mates are now faculty members. And the one whose work was most like what you describe, and who did the best work IMO, never was able to secure a tenure track position. The lifestyle you describe is really not worth the PhD you get in the end. The ROI is just not there - financially or otherwise.
  - Balgair 9y ago
    It really does seem like luck is the thing, even in something like the ivory tower. It stinks, but all that hard work is the price of the lotto ticket; it still ends up being just plain luck in the end. I also feel like it's a race to the bottom now. It used to be 'publish or perish', now it's 'funding or famine'. The paper numbers, impact, and truthfulness have nothing to do with anything. I see so many PIs that essentially end up as one income households, their spouse's, not their own. The 'good ones' just get pushed out or leave, an evaporative effect, leaving only the liars. The academy is in real trouble these days. It isn't on life support yet, but it's not able to climb the stairs anymore.