6 ms·

I've been using Firefox as my only browser for at least 12 years. If they go through with this, I'll switch to something else. I don't know how they could thi

by suby 9y ago

I've been using Firefox as my only browser for at least 12 years. If they go through with this, I'll switch to something else. I don't know how they could think that this is acceptable.

drtillberg 9y ago
I think Mozilla's boldness in stating the plan to systematically leak user information, is a tipping point. Will increase usage of Opera, Midori, Chromium. As for Tor integration with Firefox, that really is a shame, I hope Tor integrates with something else.
- Yoric 9y ago
  It's not "stating the plan", it's calling for feedback. If you disagree, provide feedback :)
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Oh, it’s simple. Just comply with EU law, and it’s all okay. That includes: 1. You can not collect anything without explicit opt-in 2. You can not transmit any data to a third party 3. If a user requests it, you have to provide all data stored about them, and have to provide a way for them to delete all of that. (And you have to provide this at least once every 12 months via letter, fax or email for free) (compare §34 BDSG)
    - yuhong 9y ago
      I wonder which kind of data it actually applies to though.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        All and any. That includes IP addresses (just connecting to a socket without a user explicitly starting that action), names, emails, hashed IPs, it includes usernames, CC data, messages, interactions with webpages. Anything that in any way is connected to a person is covered by this. This directive is also the origin of the cookie disclaimers, which require opt-in before collecting statistics or loading any third party tracking solution.
        yuhong 9y ago
        Does it only require permission if the IP address is being stored?
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        kuschku 9y ago
        Read this comment, it cites the relevant laws for Germany: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15072474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15072474 But be aware, in May 2018 it all changes as the new EU GDPR comes into force, and that’s a bit more restrictive (and even applies to anyone processing or storing data of EU citizen, no matter where the processing entity is located)
  - drtillberg 9y ago
    Ok, boldness in "seeking feedback" on systematically leaking private information. Same concern.
  - GhotiFish 9y ago
    People universally stated their feedback about pocket and it's still there. Why participate in a no-op?
    - sp332 9y ago
      Because the Pocket feedback I remember was about privacy concerns, and those were addressed.
      - CaptSpify 9y ago
        > those were addressed. source? I never saw anything addressed other than "don't worry about it, it's for your own good"
        sp332 9y ago
        The code in the browser is a stub. No data gets collected let alone sent anywhere until the user adds a Pocket account. Pocket updated their privacy policy, and they open-sourced the browser integration code. https://venturebeat.com/2015/06/09/mozilla-responds-to-firefox-user-backlash-over-pocket-integration/ https://venturebeat.com/2015/06/09/mozilla-responds-to-firef...
        CaptSpify 9y ago
        But based on the article, it wasn't addressed until users raised a stink about it. And it wasn't just privacy, it was also closed-source, unnecessary features that should be an addon, etc.
        sp332 9y ago
        Why would it be addressed before anyone complained? And it was planned as part of the Readability feature, which is very popular and not considered "unnecessary". But FF devs were having a hard time making a good read-it-later UI and decided to use Pocket instead of reinventing the wheel. Edit: To be clear, I think the browser code was always a stub, and the privacy policy was modified before the feature launched as part of Firefox.
- unethical_ban 9y ago
  You cannot legitimately suggest using Opera as a privacy-respecting alternative to this possible new Firefox.
eridius 9y ago
"If Mozilla starts reading a tiny bit of user data using well-researched techniques for preserving user privacy and anonymity, I'm going to ditch my browser of 12 years and switch to the competition, which is perfectly happy to grab as much personal information as they possibly can from me in order to monetize me." (well, unless you're going to switch to Safari, since Apple also cares about privacy, though, spoiler alert, Safari's also using Differential Privacy to collect data).
- pessimizer 9y ago
  Why use the quotes? My guess is if the personb you're replying to thought of what Mozilla is proposing in the same way you think of it, they would have said so.
  - eridius 9y ago
    The quotes are because that's basically what suby said. I'm guessing that suby's not actually serious about switching browsers though, because doing so would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

by suby 9y ago

I've been using Firefox as my only browser for at least 12 years. If they go through with this, I'll switch to something else. I don't know how they could think that this is acceptable.

drtillberg 9y ago

I think Mozilla's boldness in stating the plan to systematically leak user information, is a tipping point. Will increase usage of Opera, Midori, Chromium. As for Tor integration with Firefox, that really is a shame, I hope Tor integrates with something else.

Yoric 9y ago
It's not "stating the plan", it's calling for feedback. If you disagree, provide feedback :)
- kuschku 9y ago
  Oh, it’s simple. Just comply with EU law, and it’s all okay. That includes: 1. You can not collect anything without explicit opt-in 2. You can not transmit any data to a third party 3. If a user requests it, you have to provide all data stored about them, and have to provide a way for them to delete all of that. (And you have to provide this at least once every 12 months via letter, fax or email for free) (compare §34 BDSG)
  - yuhong 9y ago
    I wonder which kind of data it actually applies to though.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      All and any. That includes IP addresses (just connecting to a socket without a user explicitly starting that action), names, emails, hashed IPs, it includes usernames, CC data, messages, interactions with webpages. Anything that in any way is connected to a person is covered by this. This directive is also the origin of the cookie disclaimers, which require opt-in before collecting statistics or loading any third party tracking solution.
      - yuhong 9y ago
        Does it only require permission if the IP address is being stored?
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        kuschku 9y ago
        Read this comment, it cites the relevant laws for Germany: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15072474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15072474 But be aware, in May 2018 it all changes as the new EU GDPR comes into force, and that’s a bit more restrictive (and even applies to anyone processing or storing data of EU citizen, no matter where the processing entity is located)
- drtillberg 9y ago
  Ok, boldness in "seeking feedback" on systematically leaking private information. Same concern.
- GhotiFish 9y ago
  People universally stated their feedback about pocket and it's still there. Why participate in a no-op?
  - sp332 9y ago
    Because the Pocket feedback I remember was about privacy concerns, and those were addressed.
    - CaptSpify 9y ago
      > those were addressed. source? I never saw anything addressed other than "don't worry about it, it's for your own good"
      - sp332 9y ago
        The code in the browser is a stub. No data gets collected let alone sent anywhere until the user adds a Pocket account. Pocket updated their privacy policy, and they open-sourced the browser integration code. https://venturebeat.com/2015/06/09/mozilla-responds-to-firefox-user-backlash-over-pocket-integration/ https://venturebeat.com/2015/06/09/mozilla-responds-to-firef...
        CaptSpify 9y ago
        But based on the article, it wasn't addressed until users raised a stink about it. And it wasn't just privacy, it was also closed-source, unnecessary features that should be an addon, etc.
        sp332 9y ago
        Why would it be addressed before anyone complained? And it was planned as part of the Readability feature, which is very popular and not considered "unnecessary". But FF devs were having a hard time making a good read-it-later UI and decided to use Pocket instead of reinventing the wheel. Edit: To be clear, I think the browser code was always a stub, and the privacy policy was modified before the feature launched as part of Firefox.
unethical_ban 9y ago
You cannot legitimately suggest using Opera as a privacy-respecting alternative to this possible new Firefox.

eridius 9y ago

"If Mozilla starts reading a tiny bit of user data using well-researched techniques for preserving user privacy and anonymity, I'm going to ditch my browser of 12 years and switch to the competition, which is perfectly happy to grab as much personal information as they possibly can from me in order to monetize me." (well, unless you're going to switch to Safari, since Apple also cares about privacy, though, spoiler alert, Safari's also using Differential Privacy to collect data).

pessimizer 9y ago
Why use the quotes? My guess is if the personb you're replying to thought of what Mozilla is proposing in the same way you think of it, they would have said so.
- eridius 9y ago
  The quotes are because that's basically what suby said. I'm guessing that suby's not actually serious about switching browsers though, because doing so would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.