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Are French high schools reasonably homogeneous in their quality? Otherwise a merit-based system would be massively discriminating against students which made a

by sannee 9y ago

Are French high schools reasonably homogeneous in their quality? Otherwise a merit-based system would be massively discriminating against students which made a poor choice (or live in an area without much of a choice).

cm2187 9y ago
Not really. State controlled schools in theory are supposed to take students based on postcode only, but in practice the most prestigious do their own selection. And you also have lots of private schools that are even more heterogeneous. The French system is very paradoxical. By trying to be very egalitarian it is achieving the opposite result. For high schools, the postcode allocation makes that wealthy areas where parent tend to be all highly educated have much better schools, whereas the poorest suburbs where immigrants live when they first arrive in France, have become educational toxic waste lands. And since teachers do not want to live there or face these students, they also get bottom of the basket teachers and high turnover. The mainstream universities, because of a long standing practice of having no selection, are chronically over-crowded and under-funded and their reputation has gone down the drain, outside of a few disciplines, like medicine, where incompetence has too great consequences, and which maintained a good reputation based on competitive exam selections. In parallel to universities, you have grandes ecoles which are small universities (student count wise) but very selective and very prestigious, and from where the vast majority of company executives come from. In theory these grandes ecoles are very egalitarian too, the entrance is based on a very selective competitive exam in math, physics, economy, etc and are either free or cheap (outside of business schools). To prepare for this exam, students go through a 2/3 years preparatory school, with a very intensive and demanding curriculum. Most students keep a horrible memory of these years and these preparatory schools are known for being a "not for every student" experience. As a result, teachers in poorer areas (who did not go through these schools themselves) discourage good students from enrolling ("it's not for you, too hard"), whereas parents who themselves went through this system apply pressure on their kids to do it anyway. As a result, you end up with a massive endogamy.

by sannee 9y ago

cm2187 9y ago

Not really. State controlled schools in theory are supposed to take students based on postcode only, but in practice the most prestigious do their own selection. And you also have lots of private schools that are even more heterogeneous. The French system is very paradoxical. By trying to be very egalitarian it is achieving the opposite result. For high schools, the postcode allocation makes that wealthy areas where parent tend to be all highly educated have much better schools, whereas the poorest suburbs where immigrants live when they first arrive in France, have become educational toxic waste lands. And since teachers do not want to live there or face these students, they also get bottom of the basket teachers and high turnover. The mainstream universities, because of a long standing practice of having no selection, are chronically over-crowded and under-funded and their reputation has gone down the drain, outside of a few disciplines, like medicine, where incompetence has too great consequences, and which maintained a good reputation based on competitive exam selections. In parallel to universities, you have grandes ecoles which are small universities (student count wise) but very selective and very prestigious, and from where the vast majority of company executives come from. In theory these grandes ecoles are very egalitarian too, the entrance is based on a very selective competitive exam in math, physics, economy, etc and are either free or cheap (outside of business schools). To prepare for this exam, students go through a 2/3 years preparatory school, with a very intensive and demanding curriculum. Most students keep a horrible memory of these years and these preparatory schools are known for being a "not for every student" experience. As a result, teachers in poorer areas (who did not go through these schools themselves) discourage good students from enrolling ("it's not for you, too hard"), whereas parents who themselves went through this system apply pressure on their kids to do it anyway. As a result, you end up with a massive endogamy.