4 ms·

Not in favor of politics here on HN, but this is good news nevertheless (I am an Indian). The title is a bit misleading. The instant divorce was not a part of

Not in favor of politics here on HN, but this is good news nevertheless (I am an Indian). The title is a bit misleading. The instant divorce was not a part of the Constitution, but only the Muslim Personal Law.

candiodari 9y ago
> the Muslim Personal Law. This refers to Indian law allowing muslims to live under sharia for family matters. The rule itself is referred to as "triple talaq" and is part of sharia. In Sunni islam, basically men can abandon women, without any (any) limit immediately and without consequences (they get to take possession of everything the woman owns as well). They can take the kids if they want, including kids that have been conceived but not born yet (technically they should take the kids, but that's not what happens in practice). Women face progressively harsher physical punishments for abandoning a man. If they remarry without his permission, they face (extra cruel) execution (stoning, often with the kids and family forced to watch). Edit: links http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/05/tripple-talaq-triple-divorce-170511160557346.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/05/tripple-ta... The problem with wikipedia articles is that they try to bury the message in detail. Read it through 5 times and you'll slowly realize what the rule is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_in_Islam#Talaq_al-bid.27ah_and_triple_talaq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_in_Islam#Talaq_al-bid.... TLDR: in mainstream Sunni islam what I said is true. Allowing women contractual divorce is a Shi'a practice, and not practiced by >85% of muslims worldwide (what is it ?Essentially a prenup allowing for divorce under stated circumstances, which cannot be initiated directly by the woman). Once you look up the numbers, you'll see that the worst kind (the pure triple talaq) is followed by some ~80% of muslims worldwide, and the contractual thing is an exception for Shi'a only (and is one of the main stated reasons of recent Sunni genocides against Shi'a in the middle east). You'll see that the text does in fact say the overwhelming majority follows the worst practice, but not on your first read. These statements in wikipedia are true, but they're true like saying "your phone company cannot just terminate your service", which is true. And then give the entire contract and details on how this contract is affected by 5 different jurisdictions, which is of course the entire rule. But all it serves is to cloud the issue. Of course, in all realistic circumstances, your phone company can in fact just tell you to fuck off without so much as giving a reason.
- eklavya 9y ago
  If that's Sharia you should clarify that, it's not like you can do that in India.
- meric 9y ago
  That's not Sharia. Please cite sources and not tar Islam with unsourced statements designed to trigger an emotional reaction.
  - btilly 9y ago
    Yeah, there is no need for exaggeration. There are plenty of accurate statements about Sharia that trigger an emotional reaction among people of Western sensibilities. For example there are countries (Egypt and Jordan) in the Middle-East where over 80% of the population supports murdering anyone raised Muslim who decides as an adult that the Koran is wrong. See http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi... for a source on that.
- tokenmuslim 9y ago
  > The rule itself is referred to as "triple talaq" and is part of sharia. In Sunni islam, basically men can abandon women, without any (any) limit immediately and without consequences. It's worth noting that there is no consensus on the validity or meaning of triple talaq within Sunni Islam. > they get to take possession of everything the woman owns as well This is not true, I guess you are confusing it with a khula divorce in which the woman requests that the man divorce her. In this case, she has to give back the mahr (bride price). > They can take the kids if they want, including kids that have been conceived but not born yet (technically they should take the kids, but that's not what happens in practice). In Islam kids stay with the woman if they are below a certain age, and men take kids above a certain age. > Women face progressively harsher physical punishments for abandoning a man. If they remarry without his permission, they face (extra cruel) execution (stoning, often with the kids and family forced to watch). I'm not sure what you mean, a woman does not need to seek permission to remarry from her ex-husband. Her current husband does need to give permission for a khula divorce, there are other kinds of divorce e.g. by a court in cases of mistreatment or abandonment. Yes, in general only men are given the right to divorce for no reason. Stoning is the hadd punishment for adultery, i.e. sex with someone one is not married to.

candiodari 9y ago

> the Muslim Personal Law. This refers to Indian law allowing muslims to live under sharia for family matters. The rule itself is referred to as "triple talaq" and is part of sharia. In Sunni islam, basically men can abandon women, without any (any) limit immediately and without consequences (they get to take possession of everything the woman owns as well). They can take the kids if they want, including kids that have been conceived but not born yet (technically they should take the kids, but that's not what happens in practice). Women face progressively harsher physical punishments for abandoning a man. If they remarry without his permission, they face (extra cruel) execution (stoning, often with the kids and family forced to watch). Edit: links http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/05/tripple-talaq-triple-divorce-170511160557346.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/05/tripple-ta... The problem with wikipedia articles is that they try to bury the message in detail. Read it through 5 times and you'll slowly realize what the rule is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_in_Islam#Talaq_al-bid.27ah_and_triple_talaq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_in_Islam#Talaq_al-bid.... TLDR: in mainstream Sunni islam what I said is true. Allowing women contractual divorce is a Shi'a practice, and not practiced by >85% of muslims worldwide (what is it ?Essentially a prenup allowing for divorce under stated circumstances, which cannot be initiated directly by the woman). Once you look up the numbers, you'll see that the worst kind (the pure triple talaq) is followed by some ~80% of muslims worldwide, and the contractual thing is an exception for Shi'a only (and is one of the main stated reasons of recent Sunni genocides against Shi'a in the middle east). You'll see that the text does in fact say the overwhelming majority follows the worst practice, but not on your first read. These statements in wikipedia are true, but they're true like saying "your phone company cannot just terminate your service", which is true. And then give the entire contract and details on how this contract is affected by 5 different jurisdictions, which is of course the entire rule. But all it serves is to cloud the issue. Of course, in all realistic circumstances, your phone company can in fact just tell you to fuck off without so much as giving a reason.

eklavya 9y ago
If that's Sharia you should clarify that, it's not like you can do that in India.
meric 9y ago
That's not Sharia. Please cite sources and not tar Islam with unsourced statements designed to trigger an emotional reaction.
- btilly 9y ago
  Yeah, there is no need for exaggeration. There are plenty of accurate statements about Sharia that trigger an emotional reaction among people of Western sensibilities. For example there are countries (Egypt and Jordan) in the Middle-East where over 80% of the population supports murdering anyone raised Muslim who decides as an adult that the Koran is wrong. See http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi... for a source on that.
tokenmuslim 9y ago
> The rule itself is referred to as "triple talaq" and is part of sharia. In Sunni islam, basically men can abandon women, without any (any) limit immediately and without consequences. It's worth noting that there is no consensus on the validity or meaning of triple talaq within Sunni Islam. > they get to take possession of everything the woman owns as well This is not true, I guess you are confusing it with a khula divorce in which the woman requests that the man divorce her. In this case, she has to give back the mahr (bride price). > They can take the kids if they want, including kids that have been conceived but not born yet (technically they should take the kids, but that's not what happens in practice). In Islam kids stay with the woman if they are below a certain age, and men take kids above a certain age. > Women face progressively harsher physical punishments for abandoning a man. If they remarry without his permission, they face (extra cruel) execution (stoning, often with the kids and family forced to watch). I'm not sure what you mean, a woman does not need to seek permission to remarry from her ex-husband. Her current husband does need to give permission for a khula divorce, there are other kinds of divorce e.g. by a court in cases of mistreatment or abandonment. Yes, in general only men are given the right to divorce for no reason. Stoning is the hadd punishment for adultery, i.e. sex with someone one is not married to.