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I'm completely over the 8 hour plus 1 hour lunch workday that results in spending 9 hours at or around your place of employment. When you factor in your commute

I'm completely over the 8 hour plus 1 hour lunch workday that results in spending 9 hours at or around your place of employment. When you factor in your commute of, say, 30 min each way, you've just spent 10 hours of your day. Add 8 hours sleep plus 1 hour for dinner plus 1 hour getting up and ready in the morning, that leaves you with 4 hours for your life during the weekdays. Then you watch an hour of TV with your significant other, now you've got 3 hours left. It gets pretty hard to pursue a side project, art, or a hobby living like that. Can you cut an hour or two off sleep? Maybe, but I didn't factor in things like working out or calling your friends/family so it's probably a wash. What's more is that the lifestyle I've described above doesn't leave people with much time to consume products/services. If people had shorter workdays they would actually have time to spend money, which you'd think capitalism would want most of all. Cutting down the workday would save people so many pointless meetings as well since managers might actually feel some sort of constraint on the time they have their employees in their offices. I think most people in tech or high-skilled white collar jobs see how their fellow employees do various things to reduce the 40 hour workweek to something reasonable. People work from home one day a week often, or they work four days a week supposedly doing 10 hour days instead of 8. There's a lot of charade involved in the 40 hour week for many employees. However, many other employees aren't able to find these loopholes and it results in a real grind...especially when the job isn't just 40 hours a week and turns into 50 or 60, which quickly becomes unbearable. We've really got to stop this madness. If you work at SpaceX or Blue Origin, then yeah, what you're doing is pretty important and you might actually save the human race, so you can feel good about those 40 hours. But if you're working at an ad agency making gum commercials, let's get real, it could and should be done in 4 hours a day. And besides, SpaceX and Blue Origin can double their staff if needed to offset the shorter hours. Since their employees would be better rested and happier they probably won't even need 2x their staff, maybe just 1.5x.

cakedoggie 9y ago
Easy. Skip the one hour for lunch, one hour for dinner, and one hour to get ready in the morning. I got for a run and shower and dress, and only need 30 minutes to do all that and leave the house. These are things you can fix yourself. If you really want more time, millions of people do it. Also, I cycle in and out so that commute is actually exercise and much more pleasant. > If people had shorter workdays they would actually have time to spend money Ok, not sure why that is automatically a great thing.
- teirce 9y ago
  > Skip the ... one hour for dinner Not really sure how you are accomplishing this unless you are getting takeout. Between prep, cooking, consuming, cleaning, that is easily 30 minutes to an hour. If you cook enough for several meals that mitigates the cost somewhat, but there are other sacrifices made there.
  - alsetmusic 9y ago
    Further, people have families and dinner is a time to spend with one another.
    - cakedoggie 9y ago
      Then count it towards time spent with your family, not dinner.
  - cakedoggie 9y ago
    Cook for the week in one lot? Eat simpler? (Bean salads are my favourite, takes less than 5 minutes to make).
  - sarabande 9y ago
    I don't think the OPs statement is all that unrealistic, especially for a single male. Perhaps an upper bound would be 50% plus his estimate, but even me, who I don't consider a ridiculous saver of time, shower within 5 minutes (from old clothes to new clothes), make breafkast and eat in in about 15m (egg omelettes are very easy), whip together and eat salads for dinner within 15m. Time savings can be had without a huge reduction in life quality.
- jvln 9y ago
  You must be very fast - I can run 10k in 50 min and I need 30 min more to do stretches. I hardly can be as fast as you.
sarabande 9y ago
I agree with most of your post, although I think your last paragraph has orthogonal arguments, perhaps you can help me understand. 1. If you work at a company with great purpose for humanity, then you can be satisfied with working 40 hours a week. 2. If you work at a company without great purpose for humanity, your job can and should be done in 4 hours a day. Presumably, you're also saying a humanity-saving job can be done in 4 hours a day, but it's okay to feel good about more hours because of the mission's importance. If that's your argument, I don't think it holds, because people can find the intrinsic motivation to work on writing gum commercials just as well as they can building rocket ships. And presumably an ad agency would like to hire those people, such that the writers are just as motivated as rocket ship builders at SpaceX. Or perhaps you're saying the motivation should be extrinsic and measured by what society deems is a good thing?
- touchofevil 9y ago
  You might find this article written by a dying advertising creative director interesting. I certainly did. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/overdue-lesson-perspective-linds-redding-andre-gray https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/overdue-lesson-perspective-li... You're right though, my last paragraph is not really needed for the argument. It would be better to say that the workday should just be four hours for everyone and companies can pay for overtime as needed when crunch hits. That would apply to SpaceX the same as it would to an ad agency. I worked in film and I found it sad how many people are working 12 hour days to help create garbage movies that are just a cash grab by studios. Those kinds of hours really take a toll. It's one thing to do those kinds of hours if you are making something you think is really great art (it's still rough) but it's another thing to be making those sacrifices to help create a totally disposable movie meant only to enrich a studio.
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
I, a software engineer, typically work walking distance from companies in urban environments. My commute is typically 15 minutes. 10 minutes by Lyft. My workday is typically 8 hours, which includes a generous lunch break of 45 min to 1 hour. Yes, the account managers and bloggers operate on a stricter set of work ethics, primarily out of fear, and have much longer commutes. Software engineers aren't exempt from this by any means, there are easily heftier paychecks and brand names that require 3 hour commutes where you are considered lucky if get to do 5 of the 8 hours on a bus. > It gets pretty hard to pursue a side project, art, or a hobby living like that. Just pointing out that there is a prevalent and alternate approach here exclusive to workers that can afford it. A vibrant urban environment has lots of impromptu stimulation available. In your observed day, this seems to give back 1 hour for lunch, and an extra 1.5 hour from commuting, so upwards of 2.5 hours gained on top of the 4 hours you identified, giving 6.5 hours for creative endeavors or hobbies. When including some stretch goals of less sleep for an hour or two, then there is plenty of time without even encroaching on unhealthy territory. Add this up over a week or year and the commodity of time becomes a much more apparent inequality.
- dasmoth 9y ago
  "Vibrant urban environments" are great for some things, but not a panacea -- what if your chosen hobby is gardening? Or something that needs a biggish workshop? It's not necessarily impossible, but will certainly cost you.
  - alchemism 9y ago
    Depending on the nature of real estate in the given city, there might be Community Gardens and Hackerspaces. An artist's studio in a renovated factory space should only be a few $hundred a month...

cakedoggie 9y ago

Easy. Skip the one hour for lunch, one hour for dinner, and one hour to get ready in the morning. I got for a run and shower and dress, and only need 30 minutes to do all that and leave the house. These are things you can fix yourself. If you really want more time, millions of people do it. Also, I cycle in and out so that commute is actually exercise and much more pleasant. > If people had shorter workdays they would actually have time to spend money Ok, not sure why that is automatically a great thing.

teirce 9y ago
> Skip the ... one hour for dinner Not really sure how you are accomplishing this unless you are getting takeout. Between prep, cooking, consuming, cleaning, that is easily 30 minutes to an hour. If you cook enough for several meals that mitigates the cost somewhat, but there are other sacrifices made there.
- alsetmusic 9y ago
  Further, people have families and dinner is a time to spend with one another.
  - cakedoggie 9y ago
    Then count it towards time spent with your family, not dinner.
- cakedoggie 9y ago
  Cook for the week in one lot? Eat simpler? (Bean salads are my favourite, takes less than 5 minutes to make).
- sarabande 9y ago
  I don't think the OPs statement is all that unrealistic, especially for a single male. Perhaps an upper bound would be 50% plus his estimate, but even me, who I don't consider a ridiculous saver of time, shower within 5 minutes (from old clothes to new clothes), make breafkast and eat in in about 15m (egg omelettes are very easy), whip together and eat salads for dinner within 15m. Time savings can be had without a huge reduction in life quality.
jvln 9y ago
You must be very fast - I can run 10k in 50 min and I need 30 min more to do stretches. I hardly can be as fast as you.

sarabande 9y ago

I agree with most of your post, although I think your last paragraph has orthogonal arguments, perhaps you can help me understand. 1. If you work at a company with great purpose for humanity, then you can be satisfied with working 40 hours a week. 2. If you work at a company without great purpose for humanity, your job can and should be done in 4 hours a day. Presumably, you're also saying a humanity-saving job can be done in 4 hours a day, but it's okay to feel good about more hours because of the mission's importance. If that's your argument, I don't think it holds, because people can find the intrinsic motivation to work on writing gum commercials just as well as they can building rocket ships. And presumably an ad agency would like to hire those people, such that the writers are just as motivated as rocket ship builders at SpaceX. Or perhaps you're saying the motivation should be extrinsic and measured by what society deems is a good thing?

touchofevil 9y ago
You might find this article written by a dying advertising creative director interesting. I certainly did. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/overdue-lesson-perspective-linds-redding-andre-gray https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/overdue-lesson-perspective-li... You're right though, my last paragraph is not really needed for the argument. It would be better to say that the workday should just be four hours for everyone and companies can pay for overtime as needed when crunch hits. That would apply to SpaceX the same as it would to an ad agency. I worked in film and I found it sad how many people are working 12 hour days to help create garbage movies that are just a cash grab by studios. Those kinds of hours really take a toll. It's one thing to do those kinds of hours if you are making something you think is really great art (it's still rough) but it's another thing to be making those sacrifices to help create a totally disposable movie meant only to enrich a studio.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

I, a software engineer, typically work walking distance from companies in urban environments. My commute is typically 15 minutes. 10 minutes by Lyft. My workday is typically 8 hours, which includes a generous lunch break of 45 min to 1 hour. Yes, the account managers and bloggers operate on a stricter set of work ethics, primarily out of fear, and have much longer commutes. Software engineers aren't exempt from this by any means, there are easily heftier paychecks and brand names that require 3 hour commutes where you are considered lucky if get to do 5 of the 8 hours on a bus. > It gets pretty hard to pursue a side project, art, or a hobby living like that. Just pointing out that there is a prevalent and alternate approach here exclusive to workers that can afford it. A vibrant urban environment has lots of impromptu stimulation available. In your observed day, this seems to give back 1 hour for lunch, and an extra 1.5 hour from commuting, so upwards of 2.5 hours gained on top of the 4 hours you identified, giving 6.5 hours for creative endeavors or hobbies. When including some stretch goals of less sleep for an hour or two, then there is plenty of time without even encroaching on unhealthy territory. Add this up over a week or year and the commodity of time becomes a much more apparent inequality.

dasmoth 9y ago
"Vibrant urban environments" are great for some things, but not a panacea -- what if your chosen hobby is gardening? Or something that needs a biggish workshop? It's not necessarily impossible, but will certainly cost you.
- alchemism 9y ago
  Depending on the nature of real estate in the given city, there might be Community Gardens and Hackerspaces. An artist's studio in a renovated factory space should only be a few $hundred a month...