5 ms·

>Much more likely is an innovation in the battery sector. Utilities are finally waking up to the huge value proposition of batteries on the grid. They can be us

>Much more likely is an innovation in the battery sector. Utilities are finally waking up to the huge value proposition of batteries on the grid. They can be used instead of upgrading transmission and distribution infrastructure. Back of the envelope math: the electric grid would cost ~5 trillion to replace[1]. At $200/kWh that's 25,000,000,000 kWh. The US uses 11,152,000,000 kWh per day- that's 2.24 days of storage. Doubling the effective power of the grid using a day's worth of storage is trivial AND cost effective (at $200/kWh). Add in renewables and that storage gets several times more valuable, too. [1]: http://www.businessinsider.com/replacing-us-electrical-grid-cost-2017-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/replacing-us-electrical-grid-...

epistasis 9y ago
The flip side of storage directly connected to the grid is demand response: consuming electricity at times lower than peak. This serves nearly an identical function to storage that's permanently fixed to the grid, as long as it's truly dispatchable. The numbers you posted there are remarkably similar in the amount of storage in passenger cars as we shift to an EV fleet. 260 million vehicles in the US with 50 kWh batteries on average is 13,150,000,000 kWh. With smart charging at the cheap times, passenger vehicles can serve as fantastic time-shifters as demand increases on the grid. Just some of those pesky logistics and coordination tasks to solve...
- hwillis 9y ago
  The average residential consumer uses 29.6 kWh per day so 2.24 days of storage is 66.3 kWh- pretty close to 50 kWh! Also worth noting that the average daily power consumption for electric cars would only be ~8.5 kWh per person. >With smart charging at the cheap times, passenger vehicles can serve as fantastic time-shifters as demand increases on the grid. Just some of those pesky logistics and coordination tasks to solve... Yeah... and being actively fought against, annoyingly. Variable rates aren't even available to most people.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    There's plenty of time for that to change -- there aren't that many electric cars yet.
    - hwillis 9y ago
      You're talking about variable rates? Hawaii is a good example of what the future might look like, unfortunately. The power companies there are fighting very hard against variable rates because it would make solar way, way more feasible. It's kind of an extreme example because solar power could virtually eliminate Hawaiian power companies at a very substantial cost savings and a very short timescale, but the same principal elements are present everywhere in the mainland US too. Australia has a lot of variable rates though, so that's nice for them.
      - greglindahl 9y ago
        Yes, I was talking about variable rates. Australia is a slam-dunk for solar because of the great weather/insolation plus the high cost of electricity. Hawaii's economics are midway between Australia and the mainland US, they won't be able to resist for very long. At the least, the utility companies there can't resist buying solar for themselves! http://fortune.com/tesla-solarcity-battery-solar-farm/ http://fortune.com/tesla-solarcity-battery-solar-farm/

epistasis 9y ago

The flip side of storage directly connected to the grid is demand response: consuming electricity at times lower than peak. This serves nearly an identical function to storage that's permanently fixed to the grid, as long as it's truly dispatchable. The numbers you posted there are remarkably similar in the amount of storage in passenger cars as we shift to an EV fleet. 260 million vehicles in the US with 50 kWh batteries on average is 13,150,000,000 kWh. With smart charging at the cheap times, passenger vehicles can serve as fantastic time-shifters as demand increases on the grid. Just some of those pesky logistics and coordination tasks to solve...

hwillis 9y ago
The average residential consumer uses 29.6 kWh per day so 2.24 days of storage is 66.3 kWh- pretty close to 50 kWh! Also worth noting that the average daily power consumption for electric cars would only be ~8.5 kWh per person. >With smart charging at the cheap times, passenger vehicles can serve as fantastic time-shifters as demand increases on the grid. Just some of those pesky logistics and coordination tasks to solve... Yeah... and being actively fought against, annoyingly. Variable rates aren't even available to most people.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  There's plenty of time for that to change -- there aren't that many electric cars yet.
  - hwillis 9y ago
    You're talking about variable rates? Hawaii is a good example of what the future might look like, unfortunately. The power companies there are fighting very hard against variable rates because it would make solar way, way more feasible. It's kind of an extreme example because solar power could virtually eliminate Hawaiian power companies at a very substantial cost savings and a very short timescale, but the same principal elements are present everywhere in the mainland US too. Australia has a lot of variable rates though, so that's nice for them.
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      Yes, I was talking about variable rates. Australia is a slam-dunk for solar because of the great weather/insolation plus the high cost of electricity. Hawaii's economics are midway between Australia and the mainland US, they won't be able to resist for very long. At the least, the utility companies there can't resist buying solar for themselves! http://fortune.com/tesla-solarcity-battery-solar-farm/ http://fortune.com/tesla-solarcity-battery-solar-farm/