7 ms·

Then in concrete terms, what do you want?

pron 9y ago
We want the marginalization of women from power, that has been going for centuries, to end. In other words, we want society to lift its hand from the scale against women.
- deepnotderp 9y ago
  Let me rephrase that. In non-BS terms, what do you want from the tech industry?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - pron 9y ago
    To fight sexism. The problem is this discussion is that you clearly don't have the first clue as to what sexism is, in spite of me having provided links for you to learn what it is that you're arguing about. But just to explain a bit: 1. sexism isn't misogyny; 2. it isn't a concerted conspiracy against women, either. It is the name given to the social dynamics by which discrimination (often unconscious and perhaps even benevolent) causes women to have less power in society. I don't know exactly what "BS terms" mean to you other than terms you haven't bothered to look up in the links I provided.
    - deepnotderp 9y ago
      So what exactly does the tech industry have to do? You said you're only interested in tech because it is powerful. It seems to me that you feel that you think it is reasonable to demand positions in the tech industry independent of qualification because it will help rectify your imagined "power imbalance". You're giving extremely vague and hand wavy responses like "remove the hand from the scale against women" And other flowery phrases that mean nothing.
      - pron 9y ago
        > So what exactly does the tech industry have to do? That's a very difficult question about policy, and one that I do not have a strong opinion about (though happy to discuss). Experts believe that certain diversity programs are effective, and so I think we should defer to them to try them. > It seems to me that you feel that you think it is reasonable to demand positions in the tech industry independent of qualification because it will help rectify your imagined "power imbalance". The problem -- like that of affirmative action -- is that the state of affairs is one when women have already been discriminated against. For example, for a long time women were prevented from studying a lot of professions, and their lack of knowledge was then used against them. We are at a place where things are much more subtle. One thing is clear: if women are somehow deterred at any stage, then that deterrence must be removed. When it comes to affirmative action, the debate gets more heated, but it may help to realize that hiring underqualified people is already very common, so at the very least, underqualified women should not be hired at a lower rate than underqualified men. Now we get to more contentious grounds. I think it is fair to prefer a woman over a man, with otherwise equal qualifications. > And other flowery phrases that mean nothing. They don't mean nothing, but they do require a much more precise study of things.

pron 9y ago

We want the marginalization of women from power, that has been going for centuries, to end. In other words, we want society to lift its hand from the scale against women.

deepnotderp 9y ago
Let me rephrase that. In non-BS terms, what do you want from the tech industry?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- pron 9y ago
  To fight sexism. The problem is this discussion is that you clearly don't have the first clue as to what sexism is, in spite of me having provided links for you to learn what it is that you're arguing about. But just to explain a bit: 1. sexism isn't misogyny; 2. it isn't a concerted conspiracy against women, either. It is the name given to the social dynamics by which discrimination (often unconscious and perhaps even benevolent) causes women to have less power in society. I don't know exactly what "BS terms" mean to you other than terms you haven't bothered to look up in the links I provided.
  - deepnotderp 9y ago
    So what exactly does the tech industry have to do? You said you're only interested in tech because it is powerful. It seems to me that you feel that you think it is reasonable to demand positions in the tech industry independent of qualification because it will help rectify your imagined "power imbalance". You're giving extremely vague and hand wavy responses like "remove the hand from the scale against women" And other flowery phrases that mean nothing.
    - pron 9y ago
      > So what exactly does the tech industry have to do? That's a very difficult question about policy, and one that I do not have a strong opinion about (though happy to discuss). Experts believe that certain diversity programs are effective, and so I think we should defer to them to try them. > It seems to me that you feel that you think it is reasonable to demand positions in the tech industry independent of qualification because it will help rectify your imagined "power imbalance". The problem -- like that of affirmative action -- is that the state of affairs is one when women have already been discriminated against. For example, for a long time women were prevented from studying a lot of professions, and their lack of knowledge was then used against them. We are at a place where things are much more subtle. One thing is clear: if women are somehow deterred at any stage, then that deterrence must be removed. When it comes to affirmative action, the debate gets more heated, but it may help to realize that hiring underqualified people is already very common, so at the very least, underqualified women should not be hired at a lower rate than underqualified men. Now we get to more contentious grounds. I think it is fair to prefer a woman over a man, with otherwise equal qualifications. > And other flowery phrases that mean nothing. They don't mean nothing, but they do require a much more precise study of things.