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> Clear goals are for junior "code monkeys" who just do what they are told without any concern for if they are going the right thing. Agree 100%, the less you

> Clear goals are for junior "code monkeys" who just do what they are told without any concern for if they are going the right thing. Agree 100%, the less you act like a cog in a machine the less people will treat you like one. Lots of developers seem to want to log in to a system every day and just have a list of tasks they have to complete without any real collaboration or divergent thought and have their salary calculated by % of task completion. In my experience the people who collaborate in the office and try to push things further are the ones easily granted autonomy and no longer have to answer to micromanagement. Managers can see the difference between a box ticker and the breakouts that are actually making a difference at the company, once you achieve that then you'll notice people stop questioning what time you turn up to the office if at all.

tiggybear 9y ago
You can act like you're not a cog, but there's only so much autonomy you get working under someone else. If you're an employee you are a "code monkey" to one degree or another. If you do not need clear goals, Work for yourself. You don't need dozens of people above you telling you what to do and extracting part of your paycheck if you can figure it out and execute it on your own.
- bluGill 9y ago
  The CEO of my company doesn't tell me what to do. He tells a vice president who tells [skip a dozen or so layers of management] who tells my boss who tells me. Part of my job is to go on down the line - I'm expected to feed work to a half a dozen junior engineers (there are other senior engineers on my team who also are expected to find work to feed on down the chain). Each level of the chain requires understanding of what the business needs. I need to make autonomous decisions every day that ultimately the CEO stands behind. The composite of all the good decisions (enough better be good) results in the success of my company and the CEO will take credit for it. However all the CEO says to me is "we will be the global leader in [the generic area my project is in]" in an all company meeting. Every step down the chain has just been filling in details.
- intoverflow2 9y ago
  I get what you're saying (and agree) but you're using my metaphor on how to extract a better work life in a team environment to make a completely different different point on a completely different topic.
ahhhhhhhhhh 9y ago
I have the opposite experience, without clear tasks and goals nothing gets done because people spend too much time bickering about what should be done. When something goes wrong, there's bickering an finger pointing internally instead of a call to arms and testing out solutions quickly, together. My manager has also required that literally everything I do gets seen and approved by him before being entered into a sprint (I do UX a sprint ahead of development) and also before it gets pushed live at the end of a sprint. His review queue is so long that it can take over a week to even get something looked at. This generally can put me 2-3 sprints behind the development team... which is awful because I really like our team and they feel like UX just slows the entire process down (I'm getting the work done, it's just the review process slowing it down). I'm now dealing with two ends: pushing the VP-level to restructure teams to gain autonomy and the ability set their own goals (with input from the business, of course). But on the other hand my manager thinks I'm trying to undermine his authority (technically I am, but he's completely unable to relinquish absolute control). As I type this out I realize I should just look for a new job... but I do actually like the business, which is a bit of a bummer.

tiggybear 9y ago

You can act like you're not a cog, but there's only so much autonomy you get working under someone else. If you're an employee you are a "code monkey" to one degree or another. If you do not need clear goals, Work for yourself. You don't need dozens of people above you telling you what to do and extracting part of your paycheck if you can figure it out and execute it on your own.

bluGill 9y ago
The CEO of my company doesn't tell me what to do. He tells a vice president who tells [skip a dozen or so layers of management] who tells my boss who tells me. Part of my job is to go on down the line - I'm expected to feed work to a half a dozen junior engineers (there are other senior engineers on my team who also are expected to find work to feed on down the chain). Each level of the chain requires understanding of what the business needs. I need to make autonomous decisions every day that ultimately the CEO stands behind. The composite of all the good decisions (enough better be good) results in the success of my company and the CEO will take credit for it. However all the CEO says to me is "we will be the global leader in [the generic area my project is in]" in an all company meeting. Every step down the chain has just been filling in details.
intoverflow2 9y ago
I get what you're saying (and agree) but you're using my metaphor on how to extract a better work life in a team environment to make a completely different different point on a completely different topic.

ahhhhhhhhhh 9y ago

I have the opposite experience, without clear tasks and goals nothing gets done because people spend too much time bickering about what should be done. When something goes wrong, there's bickering an finger pointing internally instead of a call to arms and testing out solutions quickly, together. My manager has also required that literally everything I do gets seen and approved by him before being entered into a sprint (I do UX a sprint ahead of development) and also before it gets pushed live at the end of a sprint. His review queue is so long that it can take over a week to even get something looked at. This generally can put me 2-3 sprints behind the development team... which is awful because I really like our team and they feel like UX just slows the entire process down (I'm getting the work done, it's just the review process slowing it down). I'm now dealing with two ends: pushing the VP-level to restructure teams to gain autonomy and the ability set their own goals (with input from the business, of course). But on the other hand my manager thinks I'm trying to undermine his authority (technically I am, but he's completely unable to relinquish absolute control). As I type this out I realize I should just look for a new job... but I do actually like the business, which is a bit of a bummer.