17 ms·

The Windows App Store Is Full of Pirate Streaming Apps

124 points by drops 9y ago

bluedino 9y ago
Safari or Chrome could be a 'pirate streaming app', right? Would app stores allow a web browser with pirate sites bookmarked by default?
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  The apps on the Windows store are not even remotely plausibly useful for anything else. Not only that but they are intentionally misleading. Netflix had to deal with Microsoft at least three times in order to get Microsoft remove fake Netflix apps. Many of these apps don't even have a valid website link or contact info. Some are just a video player wrapped around an HTTP server that has 10 or 20 video files. Microsoft has zero quality controls and their store is full of shit, which is one of the reasons their platform failed so hard. They were literally paying people per app published regardless of the content of it. It turns out just advertising that you have a billion apps doesn't help if they're all just junk.
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    Do you think Apple's store for MacOS failed for the same reasons?
    - yoz-y 9y ago
      Mac App Store fails mostly because the restrictions on apps in it are too severe. Many applications can not exist on it due to sandboxing. This and the fact that the application itself is quite terrible. Edit: Also, for desktop apps the pricing model without paid upgrades is not viable. Compared to mobile, there are too few customers.
    - Rjevski 9y ago
      Did the MacOS App Store fail? I don't think so. Sure, it's not as popular as the iOS store but this is probably because most Mac apps are an order of magnitude more expensive than their iOS counterparts. Personally I don't mind paying a few bucks for an iOS app, but I think twice before hitting that buy button on a 50$ app.
      - simonh 9y ago
        It's certainly failed to reach its potential. A lot of very high quality, high profile apps have quit the App Store and actually found their sales and revenue increase, aside from not having to comply with onerous sandboxing restrictions any more.
    - tuxracer 9y ago
      The macOS app store didn't gain much traction but you're underestimating just how much of a cease pool the Windows app store is. Microsoft must have the resources to moderate that better. But based on my last test search of "Firefox" coming up with dozens of fake Firefox apps or "apps" that are "Firefox Guides" basically PDFs wrapped as an "app" etc... My only guess is Microsoft knows there's a truly abysmal number of legit apps so they just choose not to moderate it
      - astrodust 9y ago
        I don't think they realize how much effort it takes to curate. Even Google's half-assed, slap-dash approach is better than nothing.
      - seanp2k2 9y ago
        The Mac App Store has some junk but I actually find it quite useful and do buy stuff on there because I know I'll be able to install it if/when I switch computers in the future. Same thing with Steam. I also expense most of my Mac App Store purchases, so that probably makes a difference.
    - astrodust 9y ago
      Apple's store is not a complete failure, there's some very good apps in there, but it's cluttered and disorganized. The biggest hurdle in the macOS App Store is the stiff sandboxing rules that make the more exotic and often useful utilities incompatible.
      - hungerstrike 9y ago
        Do you think Adobe doesn't put the real Photoshop in Apple's Mac app store because of sandboxing? Nope. The really big hurdle is the 30% cut that Apple wants to take.
        Synaesthesia 9y ago
        It certainly contributes. Rewriting an app as complex as photoshop for the App Store would be a daunting task.
        astrodust 9y ago
        It's not in Adobe's best interest to hand over that portion when they have proven demand for their product and a distribution system (Adobe Cloud) of their own. For smaller devs the store should provide a better marketing and sales platform, and so be worth the 30% cut. Steam, as an example, seems to work out alright for most companies but not everyone.
    - whipoodle 9y ago
      Do you think Apple's store has the same lack of quality control?
  - jermaustin1 9y ago
    I feel the same about the Kindle and Google Play stores, as well. iOS App Store seems to be the only one that has more "useful" apps to noise. That said, the iOS App Store is filled with crap as well, they just do a good job of curating a front page, and the category list pages. Google Play Store is a lot better than it was in the past, but the problem I find now is due to the sheer number of android devices, you just don't get the consistency while running apps that you get on iOS App Store. I assume this is the same for Kindle since it is android-based and Windows Store since there is so much hardware out there.
    - FireBeyond 9y ago
      > That said, the iOS App Store is filled with crap as well, they just do a good job of curating a front page, and the category list pages. Very true. Once you delve into some of the category pages, or the search, you find many many pages of utter garbage. But the 'front page' experience is carefully curated to look like the cream of the crop.
    - seanp2k2 9y ago
      Yep -- search for something like "fart button" and marvel at hundreds / thousands of apps for this, even for iOS. There are definitely some very high-quality iOS apps, but they have a ton of crap as well. Android is worse, and MS / Amazon are so bad that even finding the legitimate thing you want and know the name of is a hassle. Microsoft also compounds this by making installation a hassle and almost impossible to troubleshoot, so then you must try to find legit "fix windows store" programs and hope they're not just a timer with a progress bar asking you to pay $60 for the pro version.
    - syshum 9y ago
      I feel iOS is too curated and too Draconian in what they will accept. I would much rather have to sift through garbage to find the app I want, then to have a company like apple tell me what I am allowed and not allowed to install on the device I paid them 100's or over a $1,000 to "own"
      - Spivak 9y ago
- rasjani 9y ago
  Apple does not, not even without the bookmark. A bit poor analogy but most probably do get what you meant :)
- stordoff 9y ago
  I'm not sure if its reasonable for Microsoft to differentiate (they might not be privy to any licence deals that have gone on), but the difference is the _only_ purpose of many of these apps is the streaming of pirated content - they have no legitimate use. They are often separate apps for the specific content offered (see, e.g., the screenshot in https://twitter.com/sudousrcode/status/899418294259765253 https://twitter.com/sudousrcode/status/899418294259765253)
michaelbuckbee 9y ago
An interesting aspect of this is "How can you tell if a streaming site/app is legitimate?" There are so many weird, on demand, maybe you need a cable package, maybe it's just all you can eat, maybe it's just a 2 month free promo, services out there that it's really hard for the average person to know what is legitimate. The shrinking release windows and ongoing push for day and date digital releases just makes it even harder. Case in point: TubiTV just randomly showed up on my Roku recently - It's available on XBox and streams a bunch of different stuff. Should/do I need to verify that they've correctly licensed their movies before watching?
- jstanley 9y ago
  > do I need to verify that they've correctly licensed their movies before watching? I don't think that's your responsibility. If it is brought to your attention that the app is infringing copyright, maybe it's your responsibility to stop using it. But it's not your responsibility to verify that every service you use has the rights to all the content it uses. How could you possibly do that?
  - syshum 9y ago
    Copyright law would likely disagree, I believe the MPAA would also likely disagree and put to responsibility on the person consuming the content to only consume content from "Authorized" sources, and of course they have no responsibility to report who the authorized sources are.
    - bo1024 9y ago
      I'm sure the MPAA would like to disagree, but what is your source on copyright law? Copyright law prohibits those who have copy of something from making and distributing unauthorized copies. But if you receive one of these copies, I don't see what law that would break or why the receiver would be responsible.
      - aluhut 9y ago
        ...as long as it's not uploading while downloading.
finchisko 9y ago
Microsoft's success is closely related to piracy. Piracy helped Windows to become the majority. This is no different and IMO Microsoft intentionally don't fight against those apps very strongly to help their store to succeed.
- simonh 9y ago
  Why do you think that? Was piracy not possible on other platforms? How did it give Windows a competitive edge?
  - erwinkle 9y ago
    Well for starters, you could pirate any version of windows for free and load it up on practically any hardware. Can't say the same about mac os unless you want to take the painful route of making a hackintosh
    - Karunamon 9y ago
      And they made a number of legitimate attempts to clamp down on that. First with CD keys, then with online activation, then Windows Genuine Advantage. Of course, they didn't succeed, because the phrase "successful DRM" is an oxymoron.
      - erwinkle 9y ago
        Yep! Apple had the upper hand with this by having limited hardware compatibility.
      - wongarsu 9y ago
        Their attempt to clamp down on that only really started with Windows XP, when they already had a near-monopoly. Earlier version technically had a CD Key, but I don't think those actually did anything as long as you passed the key along together with the CD.
      - dagw 9y ago
        They didn't really try to clamp down until they'd become really dominant. Up until Windows XP they basically did nothing to stop you pirating Windows.
Markoff 9y ago
dunno about app store, but in my country responsibility lies on uploader, not on me as user streaming video or music content for my private non-commercial use, it makes sense since it's not in my ability to verify every service
hungerstrike 9y ago
Every app store is full of crap. App stores are a centralized service, so there is no way to avoid crap ending up in them because there's nowhere else for the crap to go! Besides there are actually very few apps that are regularly useful to me on my limited-OS (non-desktop) devices and those are: Camera/Photos, SMS/Messaging, Web Browser, Phone Dialer, Contacts, Google Maps, Calculator, Email, KeePass and Clock/Calendar. Beyond that, every other app under the sun could disappear and I wouldn't miss them.
- tracker1 9y ago
  > there is no way to avoid crap ending up in them If they instituted a $20 screening fee, that consisted of a manual review (by an actual person) before going live on the store, that would curb the vast majority of the bad acting apps. I've said similar of some content sites that charge for educational content, that have pirated materials.
  - benologist 9y ago
    It doesn't matter how many bad apps there are when nobody wants or sees or uses them. There's also a lot of precedence with domain names and the iOS App Store for a pay-to-participate fee not really preventing bad actors from paying to participate.
    - tracker1 9y ago
      But it would catch the blatant stuff like in TFA...
      - benologist 9y ago
        The Google Play Store ($5), iOS App Store ($100/yr), probably almost every big online service have experienced substantial term and law violations so it's obviously ineffective as a preventative measure.
  - hirsin 9y ago
    It's $19 to get a Store account that lets you submit an app (1). Developing is free, but to submit the app you have to pay. I'd be curious to see how many people with accounts haven't submitted an app - I know I haven't, but mine was free via school. 1. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/account-types-locations-and-fees https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/account...
dawnerd 9y ago
Noticed this yesterday when looking at the store on my xbox one. Tons of variations of "free movies" almost like Microsoft doesn't even bother to spot check whats submitted.
klondike_ 9y ago
This is a problem with any app store to some extent, even Apple's. The difference here is that Microsoft seems to be encouraging low quality apps to boost its "app count" numbers to make its store seem more attractive. Also, many legitimate services do not have an app for Windows so users get tricked into installing fake apps or end up resorting to privacy.

124 points by drops 9y ago

Safari or Chrome could be a 'pirate streaming app', right? Would app stores allow a web browser with pirate sites bookmarked by default?

MichaelGG 9y ago
The apps on the Windows store are not even remotely plausibly useful for anything else. Not only that but they are intentionally misleading. Netflix had to deal with Microsoft at least three times in order to get Microsoft remove fake Netflix apps. Many of these apps don't even have a valid website link or contact info. Some are just a video player wrapped around an HTTP server that has 10 or 20 video files. Microsoft has zero quality controls and their store is full of shit, which is one of the reasons their platform failed so hard. They were literally paying people per app published regardless of the content of it. It turns out just advertising that you have a billion apps doesn't help if they're all just junk.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  Do you think Apple's store for MacOS failed for the same reasons?
  - yoz-y 9y ago
    Mac App Store fails mostly because the restrictions on apps in it are too severe. Many applications can not exist on it due to sandboxing. This and the fact that the application itself is quite terrible. Edit: Also, for desktop apps the pricing model without paid upgrades is not viable. Compared to mobile, there are too few customers.
  - Rjevski 9y ago
    Did the MacOS App Store fail? I don't think so. Sure, it's not as popular as the iOS store but this is probably because most Mac apps are an order of magnitude more expensive than their iOS counterparts. Personally I don't mind paying a few bucks for an iOS app, but I think twice before hitting that buy button on a 50$ app.
    - simonh 9y ago
      It's certainly failed to reach its potential. A lot of very high quality, high profile apps have quit the App Store and actually found their sales and revenue increase, aside from not having to comply with onerous sandboxing restrictions any more.
  - tuxracer 9y ago
    The macOS app store didn't gain much traction but you're underestimating just how much of a cease pool the Windows app store is. Microsoft must have the resources to moderate that better. But based on my last test search of "Firefox" coming up with dozens of fake Firefox apps or "apps" that are "Firefox Guides" basically PDFs wrapped as an "app" etc... My only guess is Microsoft knows there's a truly abysmal number of legit apps so they just choose not to moderate it
    - astrodust 9y ago
      I don't think they realize how much effort it takes to curate. Even Google's half-assed, slap-dash approach is better than nothing.
    - seanp2k2 9y ago
      The Mac App Store has some junk but I actually find it quite useful and do buy stuff on there because I know I'll be able to install it if/when I switch computers in the future. Same thing with Steam. I also expense most of my Mac App Store purchases, so that probably makes a difference.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    Apple's store is not a complete failure, there's some very good apps in there, but it's cluttered and disorganized. The biggest hurdle in the macOS App Store is the stiff sandboxing rules that make the more exotic and often useful utilities incompatible.
    - hungerstrike 9y ago
      Do you think Adobe doesn't put the real Photoshop in Apple's Mac app store because of sandboxing? Nope. The really big hurdle is the 30% cut that Apple wants to take.
      - Synaesthesia 9y ago
        It certainly contributes. Rewriting an app as complex as photoshop for the App Store would be a daunting task.
      - astrodust 9y ago
        It's not in Adobe's best interest to hand over that portion when they have proven demand for their product and a distribution system (Adobe Cloud) of their own. For smaller devs the store should provide a better marketing and sales platform, and so be worth the 30% cut. Steam, as an example, seems to work out alright for most companies but not everyone.
  - whipoodle 9y ago
    Do you think Apple's store has the same lack of quality control?
- jermaustin1 9y ago
  I feel the same about the Kindle and Google Play stores, as well. iOS App Store seems to be the only one that has more "useful" apps to noise. That said, the iOS App Store is filled with crap as well, they just do a good job of curating a front page, and the category list pages. Google Play Store is a lot better than it was in the past, but the problem I find now is due to the sheer number of android devices, you just don't get the consistency while running apps that you get on iOS App Store. I assume this is the same for Kindle since it is android-based and Windows Store since there is so much hardware out there.
  - FireBeyond 9y ago
    > That said, the iOS App Store is filled with crap as well, they just do a good job of curating a front page, and the category list pages. Very true. Once you delve into some of the category pages, or the search, you find many many pages of utter garbage. But the 'front page' experience is carefully curated to look like the cream of the crop.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    Yep -- search for something like "fart button" and marvel at hundreds / thousands of apps for this, even for iOS. There are definitely some very high-quality iOS apps, but they have a ton of crap as well. Android is worse, and MS / Amazon are so bad that even finding the legitimate thing you want and know the name of is a hassle. Microsoft also compounds this by making installation a hassle and almost impossible to troubleshoot, so then you must try to find legit "fix windows store" programs and hope they're not just a timer with a progress bar asking you to pay $60 for the pro version.
  - syshum 9y ago
    I feel iOS is too curated and too Draconian in what they will accept. I would much rather have to sift through garbage to find the app I want, then to have a company like apple tell me what I am allowed and not allowed to install on the device I paid them 100's or over a $1,000 to "own"
    - Spivak 9y ago
rasjani 9y ago
Apple does not, not even without the bookmark. A bit poor analogy but most probably do get what you meant :)
stordoff 9y ago
I'm not sure if its reasonable for Microsoft to differentiate (they might not be privy to any licence deals that have gone on), but the difference is the _only_ purpose of many of these apps is the streaming of pirated content - they have no legitimate use. They are often separate apps for the specific content offered (see, e.g., the screenshot in https://twitter.com/sudousrcode/status/899418294259765253 https://twitter.com/sudousrcode/status/899418294259765253)

michaelbuckbee 9y ago

An interesting aspect of this is "How can you tell if a streaming site/app is legitimate?" There are so many weird, on demand, maybe you need a cable package, maybe it's just all you can eat, maybe it's just a 2 month free promo, services out there that it's really hard for the average person to know what is legitimate. The shrinking release windows and ongoing push for day and date digital releases just makes it even harder. Case in point: TubiTV just randomly showed up on my Roku recently - It's available on XBox and streams a bunch of different stuff. Should/do I need to verify that they've correctly licensed their movies before watching?

jstanley 9y ago
> do I need to verify that they've correctly licensed their movies before watching? I don't think that's your responsibility. If it is brought to your attention that the app is infringing copyright, maybe it's your responsibility to stop using it. But it's not your responsibility to verify that every service you use has the rights to all the content it uses. How could you possibly do that?
- syshum 9y ago
  Copyright law would likely disagree, I believe the MPAA would also likely disagree and put to responsibility on the person consuming the content to only consume content from "Authorized" sources, and of course they have no responsibility to report who the authorized sources are.
  - bo1024 9y ago
    I'm sure the MPAA would like to disagree, but what is your source on copyright law? Copyright law prohibits those who have copy of something from making and distributing unauthorized copies. But if you receive one of these copies, I don't see what law that would break or why the receiver would be responsible.
    - aluhut 9y ago
      ...as long as it's not uploading while downloading.

finchisko 9y ago

Microsoft's success is closely related to piracy. Piracy helped Windows to become the majority. This is no different and IMO Microsoft intentionally don't fight against those apps very strongly to help their store to succeed.

simonh 9y ago
Why do you think that? Was piracy not possible on other platforms? How did it give Windows a competitive edge?
- erwinkle 9y ago
  Well for starters, you could pirate any version of windows for free and load it up on practically any hardware. Can't say the same about mac os unless you want to take the painful route of making a hackintosh
  - Karunamon 9y ago
    And they made a number of legitimate attempts to clamp down on that. First with CD keys, then with online activation, then Windows Genuine Advantage. Of course, they didn't succeed, because the phrase "successful DRM" is an oxymoron.
    - erwinkle 9y ago
      Yep! Apple had the upper hand with this by having limited hardware compatibility.
    - wongarsu 9y ago
      Their attempt to clamp down on that only really started with Windows XP, when they already had a near-monopoly. Earlier version technically had a CD Key, but I don't think those actually did anything as long as you passed the key along together with the CD.
    - dagw 9y ago
      They didn't really try to clamp down until they'd become really dominant. Up until Windows XP they basically did nothing to stop you pirating Windows.

Markoff 9y ago

dunno about app store, but in my country responsibility lies on uploader, not on me as user streaming video or music content for my private non-commercial use, it makes sense since it's not in my ability to verify every service

hungerstrike 9y ago

Every app store is full of crap. App stores are a centralized service, so there is no way to avoid crap ending up in them because there's nowhere else for the crap to go! Besides there are actually very few apps that are regularly useful to me on my limited-OS (non-desktop) devices and those are: Camera/Photos, SMS/Messaging, Web Browser, Phone Dialer, Contacts, Google Maps, Calculator, Email, KeePass and Clock/Calendar. Beyond that, every other app under the sun could disappear and I wouldn't miss them.

tracker1 9y ago
> there is no way to avoid crap ending up in them If they instituted a $20 screening fee, that consisted of a manual review (by an actual person) before going live on the store, that would curb the vast majority of the bad acting apps. I've said similar of some content sites that charge for educational content, that have pirated materials.
- benologist 9y ago
  It doesn't matter how many bad apps there are when nobody wants or sees or uses them. There's also a lot of precedence with domain names and the iOS App Store for a pay-to-participate fee not really preventing bad actors from paying to participate.
  - tracker1 9y ago
    But it would catch the blatant stuff like in TFA...
    - benologist 9y ago
      The Google Play Store ($5), iOS App Store ($100/yr), probably almost every big online service have experienced substantial term and law violations so it's obviously ineffective as a preventative measure.
- hirsin 9y ago
  It's $19 to get a Store account that lets you submit an app (1). Developing is free, but to submit the app you have to pay. I'd be curious to see how many people with accounts haven't submitted an app - I know I haven't, but mine was free via school. 1. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/account-types-locations-and-fees https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/account...

dawnerd 9y ago

Noticed this yesterday when looking at the store on my xbox one. Tons of variations of "free movies" almost like Microsoft doesn't even bother to spot check whats submitted.

klondike_ 9y ago

This is a problem with any app store to some extent, even Apple's. The difference here is that Microsoft seems to be encouraging low quality apps to boost its "app count" numbers to make its store seem more attractive. Also, many legitimate services do not have an app for Windows so users get tricked into installing fake apps or end up resorting to privacy.