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I think it's very important to parse Pao from the reprehensible behavior she describes in her workplace. Being polite, Pao does not come off well in her own per
by bane 9y ago
I think it's very important to parse Pao from the reprehensible behavior she describes in her workplace. Being polite, Pao does not come off well in her own personal story. But she was also swimming in a garbage pit.
I have no doubt that what she writes about is true, and probably even holds back on much of the frat house nonsense. There can be entire semesters spent at school exploring other avenues that she might have pursued, and in most cases she truly really was a victim of a truly terrible environment nobody should have to work in.
But for those of us who remember the case well while she was at Reddit, she also isn't only an innocent victim and had made some really bankrupt decisions all on her own. I don't get the impression from this article that she's really done any soul searching since then and she even tries to soft-peddle her affair with a co-worker as just a little bit of a school girl crush and doesn't mention various other questionable behaviors that became public as a result of her lawsuit.
There's a lot of thought that equality in the workplace should not mean "start slotting women into the existing power structures and processes", but should instead take into account differences in style and ideas that women might naturally bring. But it goes both ways, terrible behavior also can manifest itself in different ways. As innocent as Pao seems to think she is in her own bad behaviors (which she either ignores here or downplays), her former co-workers also don't think there was any particular harm -- they're both wrong. To truly respect Pao, you have to also respect that she was capable of making bad decisions and that she needs to own them. In my mind, her behavior is not as bad as her former colleagues, but she could probably throw a softball and hit them.
Pao's story is important to tell, but she lacks the personal credibility for people to care. I really feel like if she were a bit more open about where she also messed up, and her motivations, she would come across as a much more empathetic story teller that would get more people's attention and give her better credibility than her former colleagues. But her general unwillingness to publicly confront, and get out in front of, her own behavior leaves her story vulnerable to various naysayers and that's a shame.
- whostolemyhat 9y agoThis is such a strange view - you don't care about Pao's side of the story because she's not a complete paragon of virtue? You also seem to be basing that on her time at Reddit, during which, as the article mentions, she was being smeared by Kleiner?
- marmaduke 9y ago> Pao's story is important to tell, but she lacks the personal credibility for people to care. Was a clear way to say the story is relevant but unfortunate choice of storyteller
- abritinthebay 9y agoYes, but it was also clear that this view is unsupported and irrelevant to the point of the story.
- tomxor 9y ago> Yes, but it was also clear that this view is unsupported and irrelevant to the point of the story. Why is it irrelevant? I think it's entirely relevant, Pao showed she was pretty deceitful in her suit... how is such an individuals personal case of discrimination not tainted by that?
- abritinthebay 9y ago> Pao showed she was pretty deceitful in her suit In your opinion (and also rather unsupported). She just failed to prove her allegations to the courts standard. The company’s smear campaign against (a proven thing) shows her opponents in that case as far more deceitful tbh
- tomxor 9y agoPfft yeah I can just swing "In your opinion (and also rather unsupported)" around too... Pao is as deceitful as her employer, they are a perfect match.
- bane 9y agoRead it again, that's not what I said.
- erikpukinskis 9y ago
- gthtjtkt 9y agoYeah, I get the feeling that we're hearing one side of a very two-sided story. Maybe she feels the need to vindicate herself since the court didn't, but it's making her look like a sore loser. And she's trying to poison the well by claiming anyone criticizing her was part of a paid "troll army". I remember her time at Reddit very well. She was almost universally disliked by the "troll army", AKA normal users who formed their opinions independently.
- tomxor 9y ago> Pao's story is important to tell, but she lacks the personal credibility for people to care. This. [EDIT] All you downvoters... please do explain why Pao is such a relatable character whom we can all empathise with so easily.
- p49k 9y agoWhat specific behaviors of Pao would you compare to the constant harassment and mistreatment she experienced at KP? From my recollection, most of the criticism she received was related to poor decisions she made at Reddit, and it has since been revealed by Yishan Wong that she was not actually the person who made those decisions and that she was used as a scapegoat.
- uniformlyrandom 9y ago> revealed by Yishan Wong If what he said could be trusted. He also made a bunch of questionable decisions at Reddit, so I take whatever he says with a grain of salt.
- p49k 9y agoOhanian confirmed what he said about Pao, though.
- nailer 9y agoI never understood why Pao just didn't say one of the founders (IIRC) fired the AMA woman and that, despite being the CEO, it wasn't her decision. Everyone was angry at Pao for something she didn't do.
- p49k 9y agoIt's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The higher-up should have announced himself that he had made the decision. For Pao to say this herself might come off as petty or overly defensive.
- nailer 9y agoYeah actually, you're right. It was the founder who should have stood up here rather than throw Pao to the wolves.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- BeetleB 9y ago>But for those of us who remember the case well while she was at Reddit, she also isn't only an innocent victim and had made some really bankrupt decisions all on her own. What I remember of her tenure on Reddit is: She was continually accused by everyone for doing something she didn't do. And as a CEO, she gracefully did not pass the buck to the guilty parties, and assumed responsibility.
- tomxor 9y ago>Pao's story is important to tell, but she lacks the personal credibility for people to care ^This, because it matters, reverse the scenario if you like, and make it a man... It's very difficult to care about any type of discrimination when the person discriminated against is unpleasant to say the least. This is not hate, stop the mad flagging and form an argument!
- erikpukinskis 9y agoIt's not OK to harass unpleasant people.
- tomxor 9y agopls.. don't strawman me, i did not say it's ok to harass unpleasant people. If you can't form an argument don't bother commenting.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]