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I disagree, and prefer monolithic frameworks than modular ones. Catering for a common configuration of modules allows the maintainer and contributors to make m

by demarq 9y ago

I disagree, and prefer monolithic frameworks than modular ones. Catering for a common configuration of modules allows the maintainer and contributors to make more assumptions. These assumptions allow them greater freedom to optimize performance and simplify interfaces. Lego like frameworks have to be uber generic thus catering to theoretical computer science aesthetics rather than real world practical use cases. if a developer wants to stray from the "recommended" path, they should do so at their own cost. The community should not belabor themselves to accommodate outliers. maintaining these projects is really hard work.

git-pull 9y ago
Echoing this. Some personal anecdotes: Back in 2012, I remember when Backbone Marionette broke into pieces. It made "logical" sense, but the instances you'd actually want to pull in the event library without taking in Marionette is rare. There's a certain sense you have to be tactical with decoupling stuff. I decouple front ends from libraries because I don't want my users to be forced to use my CLI front end when they just want an abstraction with minimal requirements. I get away with it because there's 1 library and 1 frontend. In JS, there's a front end, a library, and an extension marketplace that make you wonder what they were thinking when they were decoupled. Stuff like extract-text-webpack-plugin. Guess what that plugin does: It allows you have your CSS show up as CSS files instead of JS. But the title denote that, (forget that fact you'd expect webpack to have such simple stuff in webpack itself.) It instead is "extracts text", despite the fact the convention of "text extraction" means nothing to web developers.
skratlo 9y ago
Can you prove that the demand for "monolithic frameworks" and that "the community" of such frameworks is bigger than what you call the "outliers"? Composing software from small reusable libraries can hardly be called "theoretical computer science aesthetics".
chrisweekly 9y ago
Here's where the distinction between "framework" and "library" is meaningful, yes? There are valid (and pragmatic) reasons to prefer one over the other.
danpalmer 9y ago
Agreed, I use Django for backend development and one of the main reasons is the consistent set of interfaces and architectural decisions, that all work well together. I could probably get something faster or smarter with Flask + sqlalchemy, etc, but it's going to require much more thought and overhead on my part, and ultimately take longer to maintain.

by demarq 9y ago

git-pull 9y ago

Echoing this. Some personal anecdotes: Back in 2012, I remember when Backbone Marionette broke into pieces. It made "logical" sense, but the instances you'd actually want to pull in the event library without taking in Marionette is rare. There's a certain sense you have to be tactical with decoupling stuff. I decouple front ends from libraries because I don't want my users to be forced to use my CLI front end when they just want an abstraction with minimal requirements. I get away with it because there's 1 library and 1 frontend. In JS, there's a front end, a library, and an extension marketplace that make you wonder what they were thinking when they were decoupled. Stuff like extract-text-webpack-plugin. Guess what that plugin does: It allows you have your CSS show up as CSS files instead of JS. But the title denote that, (forget that fact you'd expect webpack to have such simple stuff in webpack itself.) It instead is "extracts text", despite the fact the convention of "text extraction" means nothing to web developers.

skratlo 9y ago

Can you prove that the demand for "monolithic frameworks" and that "the community" of such frameworks is bigger than what you call the "outliers"? Composing software from small reusable libraries can hardly be called "theoretical computer science aesthetics".

chrisweekly 9y ago

Here's where the distinction between "framework" and "library" is meaningful, yes? There are valid (and pragmatic) reasons to prefer one over the other.

danpalmer 9y ago

Agreed, I use Django for backend development and one of the main reasons is the consistent set of interfaces and architectural decisions, that all work well together. I could probably get something faster or smarter with Flask + sqlalchemy, etc, but it's going to require much more thought and overhead on my part, and ultimately take longer to maintain.