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> "paid army of trolls" would definitely explain the campaign against her. She banned a number of subreddits, including /r/fatpeoplehate and revengeporn. A mov

> "paid army of trolls" would definitely explain the campaign against her. She banned a number of subreddits, including /r/fatpeoplehate and revengeporn. A move that strikes pretty deep at what people consider to be an open platform where votes define everything. Subsequently she fired Victoria Taylor, an incredibly popular moderator at /r/ama. This combined with the perceived idea that threads discussing these issues were being banned, caused a huge backlash against her.

Asdfbla 9y ago
>Subsequently she fired Victoria Taylor, an incredibly popular moderator at /r/ama. She didn't. Alexis Ohanian did: https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/details-emerge-about-victoria-taylors-dismissal-at-reddit/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/details-emerge-abo... She actually did very few of the things the Reddit witchhunt accused her of. The whole Pao affair was just another dark period that showed how insane online communities can really be.
- Boothroid 9y ago
  Pao's appointment at Reddit always struck me as odd. Was she really the best person they could find?
  - Joeri 9y ago
    Well, obviously she was the best person, otherwise they would not have hired her. The definition of "best" is malleable. You may not understand the reasons why they chose her, but clearly they had them.
    - Boothroid 9y ago
      Are you able to outline these reasons? Because to me it seems like they were making a political point. What special experience did she have that made her a perfect match for that role, other than being a professional victim with poor judgement?
      - sctb 9y ago
        This comment doesn't make the grade for civility and substantiveness here.
    - Mithaldu 9y ago
      > "she was the best person" No, based on the evidence she seemed to be the best person. I don't have much of an opinion on what exactly happened, but your claim there is overly confident.
      - Joeri 9y ago
        When you hire someone you say that the person you hire is the best person available at that time for that role. Otherwise you hire the other person you think is best.
        Mithaldu 9y ago
        I'm not saying she wasn't, i'm just saying that neither they nor you can tell whether she actually was. Just that she seemed to be it. Maybe she was the best one, maybe appearances weren't quite that, maybe there were candidates they didn't recognize despite them being better. There are many options. Claiming she actually and factually was the best one is just overconfident though. And yes, they may have said "she is the best", but that doesn't mean they actually got that right.
- iosDrone 9y ago
  She still banned the subreddits though, which completely ruined Reddit and turned it from an interesting place into a ban-happy wasteland controlled by oversensitive mods.
jmkni 9y ago
The way she was treated, though, was disgusting. I have zero doubt that her gender/ethnicity was a major motivating factor for the majority of people involved in this backlash and that a white male in the same position would have pretty much gotten a pass from the same people. /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/revengeporn where two incredibly toxic subreddits, and I was personally happy to see them go.
- ramblerman 9y ago
  > /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/revengeporn where two incredibly toxic subreddits, and I was personally happy to see them go. I agree, but we were discussing motive. It's not unfair to expect reddit's leadership to have some insight into its userbase. If I took ownership of vogue tomorrow and introduced articles about bmx racing, that would be a dumb move. I could complain that the readership doesn't understand bmx racing - but ultimately I hurt the bottom line.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Or maybe they understood the userbase very well, and hence got themselves a sacrificial lamb before banning those subreddits.
  - arkitaip 9y ago
    Not only are you misrepresenting what Pao did and didn't do at Reddit, your analogy is poor too. The subreddits in question were utter trash, maybe even illegal in how they targeted people, and a very poor representation of what Reddit is.
    - intoverflow2 9y ago
      > and a very poor representation of what Reddit is I'd disagree, the fatpeoplehate subreddit is basically the same thing as /r/trashy /r/cringeanarchy and other other popular subreddits that are regular fixtures on the popular page. It's a thoroughly unpleasant website.
- archagon 9y ago
moomin 9y ago
As others have pointed out, none of this is particularly accurate. It is, however, true that a) she was a high profile woman due to her court case b) there exists a misogynistic troll army* that targets high profile women especially in tech c) all that you describe gave them ammunition. What it didn't do was make her a target, she already was. *Someone else took issue with the phrase "paid army of trolls". The existence of the gamergate/alt-right/etcetera troll army isn't really in dispute. Equally it's well known that actors foreign and domestic have been pushing these viewpoints with actual cash. So while I don't know one way or another whether the alt-right troll army that targets Pao has paid components, I don't think it sounds beyond the realms of plausibility either.
- Boothroid 9y ago
  People say similar things about the alt-left and Soros.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - arkitaip 9y ago
    Blaming Soros for everything that's wrong in the world is conspiracy theory paranoia.
    - Boothroid 9y ago
      And this isn't? 'The existence of the gamergate/alt-right/etcetera troll army isn't really in dispute. Equally it's well known that actors foreign and domestic have been pushing these viewpoints with actual cash.'
      - tnone 9y ago
        You're right of course, but telling the truth gets your comment flagged. I wonder what they're so afraid of...
      - 9y ago
lagadu 9y ago
None of those were Pao's actions, they were done by her replacement. To Pao's credit, she was very hands-off when it came to trying to impose values on the social aspect of Reddit; given ample chance to change that like her successor did, she generally left the subreddits alone as long as they didn't blalantly violate the rediquette. The only thing that was contentious that I can recall had absolutely nothing to do with Reddit the social community: she instituted a policy where contract negotiations were forbidden reasoning that because studies showed that women negotiated less, it was an advantage towards male workers (full disclosure: I do find that policy to be an aberration). But that policy had nothing to do with the website, it was a Reddit corporate thing. I do believe that she was a strong proponent of Reddit being an open playground for discussion and where people of all beliefs could gather and discuss them, no matter how distasteful other people may or may not find them to be.
b4ux1t3 9y ago
/r/fatpeoplehate and /r/revengeoporn specifically broke Reddit rules re: real-life stalking and harassment. I didn't and still don't particularly care for Ellen Pao, but enforcing rules was one of the better parts of her tenure at Reddit.
BeetleB 9y ago
>Subsequently she fired Victoria Taylor, an incredibly popular moderator at /r/ama. She did no such thing. You fell for the rumors.

Asdfbla 9y ago

>Subsequently she fired Victoria Taylor, an incredibly popular moderator at /r/ama. She didn't. Alexis Ohanian did: https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/details-emerge-about-victoria-taylors-dismissal-at-reddit/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/details-emerge-abo... She actually did very few of the things the Reddit witchhunt accused her of. The whole Pao affair was just another dark period that showed how insane online communities can really be.

Boothroid 9y ago
Pao's appointment at Reddit always struck me as odd. Was she really the best person they could find?
- Joeri 9y ago
  Well, obviously she was the best person, otherwise they would not have hired her. The definition of "best" is malleable. You may not understand the reasons why they chose her, but clearly they had them.
  - Boothroid 9y ago
    Are you able to outline these reasons? Because to me it seems like they were making a political point. What special experience did she have that made her a perfect match for that role, other than being a professional victim with poor judgement?
    - sctb 9y ago
      This comment doesn't make the grade for civility and substantiveness here.
  - Mithaldu 9y ago
    > "she was the best person" No, based on the evidence she seemed to be the best person. I don't have much of an opinion on what exactly happened, but your claim there is overly confident.
    - Joeri 9y ago
      When you hire someone you say that the person you hire is the best person available at that time for that role. Otherwise you hire the other person you think is best.
      - Mithaldu 9y ago
        I'm not saying she wasn't, i'm just saying that neither they nor you can tell whether she actually was. Just that she seemed to be it. Maybe she was the best one, maybe appearances weren't quite that, maybe there were candidates they didn't recognize despite them being better. There are many options. Claiming she actually and factually was the best one is just overconfident though. And yes, they may have said "she is the best", but that doesn't mean they actually got that right.
iosDrone 9y ago
She still banned the subreddits though, which completely ruined Reddit and turned it from an interesting place into a ban-happy wasteland controlled by oversensitive mods.

jmkni 9y ago

The way she was treated, though, was disgusting. I have zero doubt that her gender/ethnicity was a major motivating factor for the majority of people involved in this backlash and that a white male in the same position would have pretty much gotten a pass from the same people. /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/revengeporn where two incredibly toxic subreddits, and I was personally happy to see them go.

ramblerman 9y ago
> /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/revengeporn where two incredibly toxic subreddits, and I was personally happy to see them go. I agree, but we were discussing motive. It's not unfair to expect reddit's leadership to have some insight into its userbase. If I took ownership of vogue tomorrow and introduced articles about bmx racing, that would be a dumb move. I could complain that the readership doesn't understand bmx racing - but ultimately I hurt the bottom line.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Or maybe they understood the userbase very well, and hence got themselves a sacrificial lamb before banning those subreddits.
- arkitaip 9y ago
  Not only are you misrepresenting what Pao did and didn't do at Reddit, your analogy is poor too. The subreddits in question were utter trash, maybe even illegal in how they targeted people, and a very poor representation of what Reddit is.
  - intoverflow2 9y ago
    > and a very poor representation of what Reddit is I'd disagree, the fatpeoplehate subreddit is basically the same thing as /r/trashy /r/cringeanarchy and other other popular subreddits that are regular fixtures on the popular page. It's a thoroughly unpleasant website.
archagon 9y ago

moomin 9y ago

As others have pointed out, none of this is particularly accurate. It is, however, true that a) she was a high profile woman due to her court case b) there exists a misogynistic troll army* that targets high profile women especially in tech c) all that you describe gave them ammunition. What it didn't do was make her a target, she already was. *Someone else took issue with the phrase "paid army of trolls". The existence of the gamergate/alt-right/etcetera troll army isn't really in dispute. Equally it's well known that actors foreign and domestic have been pushing these viewpoints with actual cash. So while I don't know one way or another whether the alt-right troll army that targets Pao has paid components, I don't think it sounds beyond the realms of plausibility either.

Boothroid 9y ago
People say similar things about the alt-left and Soros.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- arkitaip 9y ago
  Blaming Soros for everything that's wrong in the world is conspiracy theory paranoia.
  - Boothroid 9y ago
    And this isn't? 'The existence of the gamergate/alt-right/etcetera troll army isn't really in dispute. Equally it's well known that actors foreign and domestic have been pushing these viewpoints with actual cash.'
    - tnone 9y ago
      You're right of course, but telling the truth gets your comment flagged. I wonder what they're so afraid of...
    - 9y ago

lagadu 9y ago

None of those were Pao's actions, they were done by her replacement. To Pao's credit, she was very hands-off when it came to trying to impose values on the social aspect of Reddit; given ample chance to change that like her successor did, she generally left the subreddits alone as long as they didn't blalantly violate the rediquette. The only thing that was contentious that I can recall had absolutely nothing to do with Reddit the social community: she instituted a policy where contract negotiations were forbidden reasoning that because studies showed that women negotiated less, it was an advantage towards male workers (full disclosure: I do find that policy to be an aberration). But that policy had nothing to do with the website, it was a Reddit corporate thing. I do believe that she was a strong proponent of Reddit being an open playground for discussion and where people of all beliefs could gather and discuss them, no matter how distasteful other people may or may not find them to be.

b4ux1t3 9y ago

/r/fatpeoplehate and /r/revengeoporn specifically broke Reddit rules re: real-life stalking and harassment. I didn't and still don't particularly care for Ellen Pao, but enforcing rules was one of the better parts of her tenure at Reddit.

BeetleB 9y ago

>Subsequently she fired Victoria Taylor, an incredibly popular moderator at /r/ama. She did no such thing. You fell for the rumors.