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Yup. That is, in fact, the justification used to make the tradeoff against the discussion norms I need in order to feel safe participating. The Cause is just so

Yup. That is, in fact, the justification used to make the tradeoff against the discussion norms I need in order to feel safe participating. The Cause is just so very Important, and that importance is used to justify all sorts of anti-social behavior. Shaming, lying, doxxing, no-platforming, not taking your opponent's arguments in good faith, and even physical violence. Please do not insinuate that I don't care about the lives and livelihoods of women. I do, and that's why I put as much effort as I do into thinking about and discussing community norms, discourse norms, and other meta-level stuff. I generally agree with the aims the social justice types want, disagree vehemently with the costs they're willing to impose on people to get them, and do not feel like I can safely participate non-anonymously to achieve either of those goals. Talking about discourse norms, at the very best, gets insinuations that I'm a Bad Person by misrepresenting me as being one of The Enemy. Working on object-level stuff enables some extraordinarily shitty behavior by The Good Guys. It's quite frustrating.

mcphage 9y ago
> Yup. That is, in fact, the justification used to make the tradeoff against the discussion norms I need in order to feel safe participating. Do you think it's not? And further: why do you need to participate? It isn't about you, it doesn't affect you. It's not your struggle, and it's not the kind of thing you can get anywhere deducing from first principles. If you don't feel safe contributing to the discussion, then don't contribute to the discussion. If there's a thread talking about some issue in C++ programming, I might read, but I don't contribute. I have plenty of opinions about C++, but no real experience, so I've got no place to participate in the discussion. And that's okay! I don't have to be involved in every discussion. > It's quite frustrating. You think you're frustrated, imagine how other people feel! "My opinion isn't valid or wanted" is a new feeling for you, but not a new feeling with to the women in your life. Maybe ask them how they handle it?

mcphage 9y ago

> Yup. That is, in fact, the justification used to make the tradeoff against the discussion norms I need in order to feel safe participating. Do you think it's not? And further: why do you need to participate? It isn't about you, it doesn't affect you. It's not your struggle, and it's not the kind of thing you can get anywhere deducing from first principles. If you don't feel safe contributing to the discussion, then don't contribute to the discussion. If there's a thread talking about some issue in C++ programming, I might read, but I don't contribute. I have plenty of opinions about C++, but no real experience, so I've got no place to participate in the discussion. And that's okay! I don't have to be involved in every discussion. > It's quite frustrating. You think you're frustrated, imagine how other people feel! "My opinion isn't valid or wanted" is a new feeling for you, but not a new feeling with to the women in your life. Maybe ask them how they handle it?