>My understanding is abstinence programs are for those that have tried to moderate and cannot. I hope I did not suggest that abstinence is not the correct answ

>My understanding is abstinence programs are for those that have tried to moderate and cannot. I hope I did not suggest that abstinence is not the correct answer for some. It just isn't the answer for all, which is what is generally taught in AA. And the quotes from Chapter 3 are not serious, in the sense that if a newcomer to AA says something like, "Maybe I can drink moderately," the answer is pretty much always, "How did you end up here then!?" (Frequently, the answer is, "The judge told me I had to come in order to avoid jail.") >It also seems strange to suggest naltrexone as an alternative to aa. Living Sober was written before naltrexone was invented. I have known a number of folks who were prescribed Valium and similar drugs in the '60s and '70s and '80s who became addicted to both Valium and alcohol. Further, the Living Sober quote suggests medication may be appropriate, but "alcoholism" (or whatever the DSM-5 calls it now) is often the main diagnosis, with any other diagnoses placed as subordinate to that main diagnosis. The implication is, "Stop drinking and the rest will go away," which is frankly bullshit. The Orange Papers (for all its many flaws) has a good section on this. >I'm having a hard time finding where it's suggested in their literature that salvation comes from sobriety? This is not from the literature, but rather from my observation over many years. Many times I have heard it suggested that AA is "basically christian" or "based on christian principles" but the reality is that it is based on what is properly called "Buchmanism" (for Frank Buchman, the founder of the Oxford Group). There is a tinge of christianity to it, but it is based on works (staying sober) rather than on grace. This is why many moral failings in AA are glossed over with, "Nobody's perfect! Just stay sober and you'll be OK!" That is an appropriate response to dealing with a medical issue -- for example, a heart patient may also be a greedy, corrupt thief. The moral failing does not generally have any bearing on the treatment of the cardiovascular issues. So why are alcoholics taking moral inventories and making amends and confessing their shortcomings to others? In other words, is it a disease, or is it a moral condition? If it's a moral condition, then let's not call AA's solution "christian," because it is not. If it is a disease, then let's treat it like one rather than using the twelve steps.