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The Damore argument as I read it said not only that women are less aggressive in general, but was premised on the idea that the reason for that difference was p

by rflrob 9y ago

The Damore argument as I read it said not only that women are less aggressive in general, but was premised on the idea that the reason for that difference was primarily biological, and that therefore efforts to promote diversity in CS were pushing things away from the natural gender ratio. Even if I were to grant that women are statistically less assertive (probably true, though anecdata suggest that women's ideas are likely to be misattributed in discussions), it seems unlikely to me that there's not a huge cultural component. For instance, "bossy", which has negative valences, is used almost exclusively of girls compared to boys. The objection I have to Damore is less the science, and more the conclusions from the evidence.

innocentoldguy 9y ago
I wish you would read what I said, rather than conflating it with Damore's memo. What I said was that Damore posited that one reason women are under represented in the technology field (and managerial roles) is that they are less assertive and less aggressive than men. I said that studies back that up, which they do. I never said that it was biological, though it's possible that it may be. What I said was that it is disingenuous of the author to declare the entirety of Damore's memo "wrong," when, in fact, studies suggest he's right. He may be wrong in his use of the word "biological," and we can debate that, but to suggest that his entire memo is wrong is intellectually dishonest. Here are some links to studies regarding women's interest in technology, and their tendency to be less aggressive and assertive than men: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/#!po=42.5000 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/#!po=42... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38061313_Men_and_Things_Women_and_People_A_Meta-Analysis_of_Sex_Differences_in_Interests https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38061313_Men_and_Th... Here is a lecture on the topic by Professor Jordan Peterson, which is interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewvqEqIXdhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewvqEqIXdhU And here are links to a poll from Indeed.com and the gender distribution in Georgia Tech's online Masters of Computer Science program that demonstrate the lack of interest that women have in technology. http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/prospective-students/numbers http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/prospective-students/numbers http://blog.indeed.com/2016/07/18/do-millennial-men-women-want-same-things-job/ http://blog.indeed.com/2016/07/18/do-millennial-men-women-wa... The issue that Damore brought up is real, and to pretend it is strictly social, as this author does, is to ignore science and women themselves. Edited to add the last two links and fix a couple of typos.

by rflrob 9y ago

innocentoldguy 9y ago

I wish you would read what I said, rather than conflating it with Damore's memo. What I said was that Damore posited that one reason women are under represented in the technology field (and managerial roles) is that they are less assertive and less aggressive than men. I said that studies back that up, which they do. I never said that it was biological, though it's possible that it may be. What I said was that it is disingenuous of the author to declare the entirety of Damore's memo "wrong," when, in fact, studies suggest he's right. He may be wrong in his use of the word "biological," and we can debate that, but to suggest that his entire memo is wrong is intellectually dishonest. Here are some links to studies regarding women's interest in technology, and their tendency to be less aggressive and assertive than men: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/#!po=42.5000 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/#!po=42... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38061313_Men_and_Things_Women_and_People_A_Meta-Analysis_of_Sex_Differences_in_Interests https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38061313_Men_and_Th... Here is a lecture on the topic by Professor Jordan Peterson, which is interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewvqEqIXdhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewvqEqIXdhU And here are links to a poll from Indeed.com and the gender distribution in Georgia Tech's online Masters of Computer Science program that demonstrate the lack of interest that women have in technology. http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/prospective-students/numbers http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/prospective-students/numbers http://blog.indeed.com/2016/07/18/do-millennial-men-women-want-same-things-job/ http://blog.indeed.com/2016/07/18/do-millennial-men-women-wa... The issue that Damore brought up is real, and to pretend it is strictly social, as this author does, is to ignore science and women themselves. Edited to add the last two links and fix a couple of typos.