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there seem to be no correlation between the percentage of educated people and the GDPP. just by glancing at this nations starting with Russia moving towards Chi

there seem to be no correlation between the percentage of educated people and the GDPP. just by glancing at this nations starting with Russia moving towards China, i can state with confidence that a nation with more educated people does not innovate more than others. one thing i would like to know is why some nations are simply more educated than others? and what difference (economically, even politically )does it make if one country is more educated than others?

ruslan 19y ago
GDP havily depends on population itself. With its 1B of under-paid ppl, China has a lof of workers who produce VALUE, hence increase GDP. You know what was the greatest achievement of Chinese communist government ? It was the idea to let their ppl work and get paid for their work. The rest was done en masse :-).
- rokhayakebe 19y ago
  GDP per capita has the same denominator as the graph: it is the populatin itself, which is why i did not bother looking at the GDP only but the per capita.
  - ruslan 19y ago
    Yes, but have you heard about gravitational collapse ? I think something similar is happining in China's economics when more workers produce more value, hence attract more capital and so on.
osipov 19y ago
>a nation with more educated people does not innovate more than others based on the chart you are dead wrong -- Russia was and still is one of the key competitors of US in innovation, albeit in the sectors outside of the semiconductors and IT (which I assume you know best). Russia is an innovator in space, weapons, nanotech and other industries, so i wasn't surprised to see them in the upper 10%. I must admit seeing them at #1 was surprising. Going from right to left, Japan certainly makes sense as an innovator (e.g. manufacturing), Korea (electronics), Nordic countries(telcom), etc. On the other hand, countries from Peru and on down are hardly innovators on anyone's list.
- deleted 19y ago
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- rokhayakebe 19y ago
  3 countries out of 30 make an exception, not a rule. i am not saying these countries are not innovative, but to my knowledge France, Denmark, Norway, Ireland, Korea, Japan and Canada are not more innovative than the US.they may be more advanced in one field like telecom, or medecine, or car manufacturing, but as a whole these nations are not more innovative then the US or India, therefore a more educated nation does not mean it will innovate more.
  - osipov 19y ago
    India is a bad example -- it suffers from a huge, uneducated population and the fact that top minds usually leave the country (until recently) and spend their most productive years abroad. Do you have any examples where India can claim world-class innovations that weren't created elsewhere?
    - ruslan 19y ago
      There's a very interesting point. Both China and India have nearely same population (1.32B and 1.12B people accordingly), and same education level as per the graph. Aslo it seems both countries are on same level of innovation, yet, China's GDP is almost 3 times higher than GDP or India ($10.12T to $4.12T). So, I won't call India an exception. The question is what makes China so productive or what India lacks ? The answer is mentality: Chinese ppl got used to work, whence Indians are not. And I think GDP does not corelate with level of edication and innovation.
      - Husafan 19y ago
        Concerning this point, it is not necessarily just the mentality. It is worth noting that China has had a government imposed and subsidized industrialization program in place for some time now. India, which is a democracy, is not forcing its people to work in factories when they might be happier living in a village. This might explain the difference in GDP?
vitaminj 19y ago
I'm not sure that GDP per capita is the right measure for assessing correlations between average income and education, which is what I presume you're trying to get at. After all GDP per capita is often skewed by the very rich. Take for example some stats from the US in 2004: GDP per capita: $39,934 (Source: http://www.econstats.com/weo/V015.htm http://www.econstats.com/weo/V015.htm) Median income per household member: $23,535 (Source: http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032005/hhinc/new02_001.htm http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032005/hhinc/new02_001.htm) Obviously a major discrepancy there. The median income per householder is determined via a sample census survey and would more accurately reflect average income than GDP per capita, which is constructed by dividing GDP by the population. Probably of more interest would be median income per householders over 18 to exclude all the kids. Then you could check the correlations between income and education. Notwithstanding, I'm not that convinced there would be a very strong correlation across countries, in part because of the multitude of other factors that would influence income. There are also other factors to consider regarding the construction of the statistics, such as purchasing price parity, the definitions each country has used for education level, etc. Trying to attain ceteris paribus (all things being equal) for this would be a nightmare.
- rokhayakebe 19y ago
  my unproven theory is that it can actually be bad for an economy in general if a vast majority of the population has a college degree. salaries will plunge, competition for positions will increase, degrees will loose their value, physicists will flip burgers, an emigration will increase drastically. off course that is until the nation can find a way to sell its talent to other countries. think India selling its IT services to the US and Europe.
tokipin 19y ago
whenever this topic comes up i always think of the people who never finished college. bill gates, jobs, eminem, etc. i don't think people like that are very rare in the US it's not a big deal if you go to college or not. more important is whether you have ability in one of pg's "creating a silicon valley elsewhere" essays he mentioned it may be more acceptable in the US for a PhD to start a startup than it would be in the UK. i think that sort of free-form climate is necessary for innovation in fact those essays are pretty relevant here http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html
deleted 19y ago
[deleted]

ruslan 19y ago

GDP havily depends on population itself. With its 1B of under-paid ppl, China has a lof of workers who produce VALUE, hence increase GDP. You know what was the greatest achievement of Chinese communist government ? It was the idea to let their ppl work and get paid for their work. The rest was done en masse :-).

rokhayakebe 19y ago
GDP per capita has the same denominator as the graph: it is the populatin itself, which is why i did not bother looking at the GDP only but the per capita.
- ruslan 19y ago
  Yes, but have you heard about gravitational collapse ? I think something similar is happining in China's economics when more workers produce more value, hence attract more capital and so on.

osipov 19y ago

>a nation with more educated people does not innovate more than others based on the chart you are dead wrong -- Russia was and still is one of the key competitors of US in innovation, albeit in the sectors outside of the semiconductors and IT (which I assume you know best). Russia is an innovator in space, weapons, nanotech and other industries, so i wasn't surprised to see them in the upper 10%. I must admit seeing them at #1 was surprising. Going from right to left, Japan certainly makes sense as an innovator (e.g. manufacturing), Korea (electronics), Nordic countries(telcom), etc. On the other hand, countries from Peru and on down are hardly innovators on anyone's list.

deleted 19y ago
[deleted]
rokhayakebe 19y ago
3 countries out of 30 make an exception, not a rule. i am not saying these countries are not innovative, but to my knowledge France, Denmark, Norway, Ireland, Korea, Japan and Canada are not more innovative than the US.they may be more advanced in one field like telecom, or medecine, or car manufacturing, but as a whole these nations are not more innovative then the US or India, therefore a more educated nation does not mean it will innovate more.
- osipov 19y ago
  India is a bad example -- it suffers from a huge, uneducated population and the fact that top minds usually leave the country (until recently) and spend their most productive years abroad. Do you have any examples where India can claim world-class innovations that weren't created elsewhere?
  - ruslan 19y ago
    There's a very interesting point. Both China and India have nearely same population (1.32B and 1.12B people accordingly), and same education level as per the graph. Aslo it seems both countries are on same level of innovation, yet, China's GDP is almost 3 times higher than GDP or India ($10.12T to $4.12T). So, I won't call India an exception. The question is what makes China so productive or what India lacks ? The answer is mentality: Chinese ppl got used to work, whence Indians are not. And I think GDP does not corelate with level of edication and innovation.
    - Husafan 19y ago
      Concerning this point, it is not necessarily just the mentality. It is worth noting that China has had a government imposed and subsidized industrialization program in place for some time now. India, which is a democracy, is not forcing its people to work in factories when they might be happier living in a village. This might explain the difference in GDP?

vitaminj 19y ago

I'm not sure that GDP per capita is the right measure for assessing correlations between average income and education, which is what I presume you're trying to get at. After all GDP per capita is often skewed by the very rich. Take for example some stats from the US in 2004: GDP per capita: $39,934 (Source: http://www.econstats.com/weo/V015.htm http://www.econstats.com/weo/V015.htm) Median income per household member: $23,535 (Source: http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032005/hhinc/new02_001.htm http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032005/hhinc/new02_001.htm) Obviously a major discrepancy there. The median income per householder is determined via a sample census survey and would more accurately reflect average income than GDP per capita, which is constructed by dividing GDP by the population. Probably of more interest would be median income per householders over 18 to exclude all the kids. Then you could check the correlations between income and education. Notwithstanding, I'm not that convinced there would be a very strong correlation across countries, in part because of the multitude of other factors that would influence income. There are also other factors to consider regarding the construction of the statistics, such as purchasing price parity, the definitions each country has used for education level, etc. Trying to attain ceteris paribus (all things being equal) for this would be a nightmare.

rokhayakebe 19y ago
my unproven theory is that it can actually be bad for an economy in general if a vast majority of the population has a college degree. salaries will plunge, competition for positions will increase, degrees will loose their value, physicists will flip burgers, an emigration will increase drastically. off course that is until the nation can find a way to sell its talent to other countries. think India selling its IT services to the US and Europe.

tokipin 19y ago

whenever this topic comes up i always think of the people who never finished college. bill gates, jobs, eminem, etc. i don't think people like that are very rare in the US it's not a big deal if you go to college or not. more important is whether you have ability in one of pg's "creating a silicon valley elsewhere" essays he mentioned it may be more acceptable in the US for a PhD to start a startup than it would be in the UK. i think that sort of free-form climate is necessary for innovation in fact those essays are pretty relevant here http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html

deleted 19y ago

[deleted]