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I get this too, but it's very draining - similar to doing an intensive workout, or given a talk at a conference. The negatives are obvious; less sociable, more

I get this too, but it's very draining - similar to doing an intensive workout, or given a talk at a conference. The negatives are obvious; less sociable, more easily irritated, wanting to be by yourself. After you've spent a day in the zone, you're not really "party material". The positive (apart from being very productive) is that I use it to get my negative feelings out of the way - anything that is bothering in my life is somehow gone when I am in "the zone" - it is truly a zen feeling as the author explains. It's also important to mention that you can't force yourself to be in the zone. It comes and goes, with very little control on your behalf. People that try to force themselves in the zone by working harder, are not truly in the zone. It happens seamlessly without you even knowing or wanting it. For instance, I'm hardly in the zone. It happens probably once every two weeks, if not less - it also depends on what I'm working on; if it's something new and exciting I'm more predisposed to get in the zone. Being in the zone is like getting an adrenaline rush - you can force yourself to do it more often (go skydiving for instance), but if you do it too often you'll quickly drain out and not enjoy it as you used to.

synthmeat 9y ago
> It comes and goes, with very little control on your behalf. As anecdata makes the data, here's mine - you have a lot of control of it. If you can control your environment (audio, light, temperature, food, exercise, communication, interaction, ...), you can get in the zone too just by virtue of almost exclusively focusing on some type of work you get in the zone for in the first place. Live by code, die by code.
- falcolas 9y ago
  No amount of control of my environment will put me in the zone when I'm working on boring code. Crud framework? I'll be reading HN while going through the motions. Code review? Time for some stimulating music (though not too stimulating, I do need to pay attention to the code review). But give me something interesting - a real challenge - and I'm able to get into the zone, the hours flying by like they were minutes. My brain has to be able to fully engage with the problem to hit that zone. Of course, I'm a technical lead in my group, so the ability to control my environment is limited. So I get up absurdly early just to get work done before I have to be available to be interrupted.
  - emddudley 9y ago
    Psychological flow (the zone) does require a slight challenge. A task that requires you to focus but which is within your capability.
  - jordic 9y ago
    I'm used to start working at 5am or early... Just to be on the zone without distractions (email, phone... )
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Everyone is different. :)
  - tudorconstantin 9y ago
    During my about 11 years of experience as a web dev, I rarely got to do any repetitive and boring tasks. When I got them, I made them interesting by thinking of ways to automate as much as possible of the implementation process. Or negociated a higher pay, so it becomes non viable financially for the employer to use me as a resource to do the routine stuff. This doesn't apply to code reviews though.
  - derping69 9y ago
    >No amount of control of my environment will put me in the zone when I'm working on boring code. adderall
    - ikeyany 9y ago
      I imagine far more people just get high.
      - ge96 9y ago
        Time to sit down for 11 hours and learn 5/6, weeks of diffeq for an exam. Eyes burning. Member disappearing into my body. Digestive system not functioning. But then it's done. And then you forget all the mass information you absorbed and shat out onto a page.
    - 9y ago
- TomMarius 9y ago
  Controlling the environment makes me more productive than I'm normally, but definitely doesn't automatically put me "in the zone".
  - synthmeat 9y ago
    Then there's pills to help getting you there.
  - visarga 9y ago
    What puts me in the zone is the problem I am working on. Just thinking about it for a couple of minutes and I'm in.
    - DutchKevv 9y ago
      Same here. I can almost say it becomes somewhat of a problem to keep a normal day schedule. It takes 2 minutes and I'm gone for at least 12 hours. It happens about 3-4 out of 5 times just because I real like the software I'm building or because I get thrilled about how to make something 'boring' a masterpiece to look at or even because I know there is something I don't understand. It's almost like a drug to keep coding en digging deeper every day. To a point where I even feel somekind of a huge pressure in the middle of night to 'profit' very hard of the last minutes i' m awake. Doesn't feel healthy anymore haha. But I just love to much somehow
- lanestp 9y ago
  It takes some effort but you can trigger the zone. I put on my favorite programming song (looped). Turn on “Freedom” to block the web. Exit every unnecessary app. Then finally do meditative breathing. Usually within 10 minutes I’ll be in the zone. The only caveat is that it is much harder for me to get into this state if I’m debugging.
  - synthmeat 9y ago
    That's one of the reasons I avoid debugging. I much prefer real-time visceral ingestion of system's IOs than undead autopsy.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    I've found I sometimes just need to do something to get there. I just had what I consider to be the single most productive day in the past few months, and I started it feeling like I wasn't going to get anything done. But I decided to golf a regex in our codebase and I had that feeling of motivation and jumped right into actual work. But funnily enough I find debugging to be the most fun when I'm in the zone (assuming I know the codebase). Something about being able to get really deep into a problem and having all the tools and programs and hardware open and running and all setup correctly.
- 5_minutes 9y ago
  Right. I only drink coffee anymore for these occasions, put in repetitive music and certain short phased annoying urgent Non coding chores must be done and out of the way, so they don't pollute my mental horizon. It works. Most of the time.
- snarf21 9y ago
  As another anecdata, the only way I've landed there more intentionally is with the two beer buzz. Working late on a project that is behind and you grab two slices and a six pack. Two beers in (and one every hour) and all of a sudden you just start tearing through code. I've had this happen to me countless times. I think it is because a lot of engineers have a brain that is spinning 1000% all the time and a couple of beers slows it down just enough for it to focus on what you are working on. All the other distractions fall away. I feel exactly the same way when I'm white water kayaking. As you are reading the water and choosing your line and focusing on executing it, everything else in life falls away. You almost can't be distracted. The interesting thing is that at the end of a run, I never feel mentally exhausted despite all the intense focus, only physically drained. Of course, ymmv.
  - lionyo 9y ago
    Sounds like the Ballmer Peak: https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/
    - c0ndu17 9y ago
      Beat me to it. ^^
  - helm33 9y ago
    >choosing your line and focusing on executing it, everything else in life falls away. For me, this is skiing. Complete focus and attention on the task at hand. Winter, come soon.
    - semi-extrinsic 9y ago
      Amen. When skiing, and I don't have to worry about the kids or newbies tagging along, I can't not be in the zone.
    - mmariani 9y ago
      Oh yeah! Cycling fast gets me there too. It's weird, just put your brain in a position of risk and your get pretty quickly to focus zen. I wish I had a a simple formula like this to get in the zone more often when programming.
hacker_9 9y ago
> Being in the zone is like getting an adrenaline rush Really disagree here, I find it's the total opposite more like a serenity and calmness. I also can get into it easily enough if I sit down with a plan of action and am not just writing code blindly and getting frustrated. If I find I can't enter the 'zone', it's usually because of some distraction (meeting coming up, feeling ill, not happy with the work, noisy open office work environment etc). > if you do it too often you'll quickly drain out and not enjoy it as you used to. Somewhat agree, but I think you mean here that you spend too much time in front of the PC and not enough time tending to your other needs? In which case I definitely agree; I notice a marked increase in productivity if I make sure to exercise routinely in my week, go on social events etc
- noir_lord 9y ago
  I find been in the zone feels a lot like a less intense version of the feeling I get after a really good nights sleep or after a getting back from a hard bike ride and having a shower, it's just a general feeling of wellness. I also find the zone happens a lot less often doing web dev than it ever did when I did desktop development, the constant scope switches combined with a massive surface means I drop out a lot more often.
  - hacker_9 9y ago
    Yeah instant context switching is a real nightmare for the brain, I find it far easier to get up for ~20 minutes after finshing a task and go outside, before returning and getting on with the next task with my now hopefully clear mind.
- travmatt 9y ago
  That wasn't the comparison to andrenaline though; rather, that both 'zones' are states that you may consciously place yourself into.
ge96 9y ago
Sucks when you have time to work on your project but can't get the flow going... Ahhh need to have someone whip the code out of me.
travmatt 9y ago
"""" The negatives are obvious; less sociable, more easily irritated, wanting to be by yourself. After you've spent a day in the zone, you're not really "party material". """ That hits close to home. Ive thought about this a bunch and it feels as though setting up the mental context of programming, the implicit model I have of how a programs operates and what is happening, is an expensive process. I do wonder what exactly is being depleted in this process - glucose? Neurotransmitters? And whether it'd be possible to supplement this such that I minimize the cost of such operations.

synthmeat 9y ago

> It comes and goes, with very little control on your behalf. As anecdata makes the data, here's mine - you have a lot of control of it. If you can control your environment (audio, light, temperature, food, exercise, communication, interaction, ...), you can get in the zone too just by virtue of almost exclusively focusing on some type of work you get in the zone for in the first place. Live by code, die by code.

falcolas 9y ago
No amount of control of my environment will put me in the zone when I'm working on boring code. Crud framework? I'll be reading HN while going through the motions. Code review? Time for some stimulating music (though not too stimulating, I do need to pay attention to the code review). But give me something interesting - a real challenge - and I'm able to get into the zone, the hours flying by like they were minutes. My brain has to be able to fully engage with the problem to hit that zone. Of course, I'm a technical lead in my group, so the ability to control my environment is limited. So I get up absurdly early just to get work done before I have to be available to be interrupted.
- emddudley 9y ago
  Psychological flow (the zone) does require a slight challenge. A task that requires you to focus but which is within your capability.
- jordic 9y ago
  I'm used to start working at 5am or early... Just to be on the zone without distractions (email, phone... )
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Everyone is different. :)
- tudorconstantin 9y ago
  During my about 11 years of experience as a web dev, I rarely got to do any repetitive and boring tasks. When I got them, I made them interesting by thinking of ways to automate as much as possible of the implementation process. Or negociated a higher pay, so it becomes non viable financially for the employer to use me as a resource to do the routine stuff. This doesn't apply to code reviews though.
- derping69 9y ago
  >No amount of control of my environment will put me in the zone when I'm working on boring code. adderall
  - ikeyany 9y ago
    I imagine far more people just get high.
    - ge96 9y ago
      Time to sit down for 11 hours and learn 5/6, weeks of diffeq for an exam. Eyes burning. Member disappearing into my body. Digestive system not functioning. But then it's done. And then you forget all the mass information you absorbed and shat out onto a page.
  - 9y ago
TomMarius 9y ago
Controlling the environment makes me more productive than I'm normally, but definitely doesn't automatically put me "in the zone".
- synthmeat 9y ago
  Then there's pills to help getting you there.
- visarga 9y ago
  What puts me in the zone is the problem I am working on. Just thinking about it for a couple of minutes and I'm in.
  - DutchKevv 9y ago
    Same here. I can almost say it becomes somewhat of a problem to keep a normal day schedule. It takes 2 minutes and I'm gone for at least 12 hours. It happens about 3-4 out of 5 times just because I real like the software I'm building or because I get thrilled about how to make something 'boring' a masterpiece to look at or even because I know there is something I don't understand. It's almost like a drug to keep coding en digging deeper every day. To a point where I even feel somekind of a huge pressure in the middle of night to 'profit' very hard of the last minutes i' m awake. Doesn't feel healthy anymore haha. But I just love to much somehow
lanestp 9y ago
It takes some effort but you can trigger the zone. I put on my favorite programming song (looped). Turn on “Freedom” to block the web. Exit every unnecessary app. Then finally do meditative breathing. Usually within 10 minutes I’ll be in the zone. The only caveat is that it is much harder for me to get into this state if I’m debugging.
- synthmeat 9y ago
  That's one of the reasons I avoid debugging. I much prefer real-time visceral ingestion of system's IOs than undead autopsy.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  I've found I sometimes just need to do something to get there. I just had what I consider to be the single most productive day in the past few months, and I started it feeling like I wasn't going to get anything done. But I decided to golf a regex in our codebase and I had that feeling of motivation and jumped right into actual work. But funnily enough I find debugging to be the most fun when I'm in the zone (assuming I know the codebase). Something about being able to get really deep into a problem and having all the tools and programs and hardware open and running and all setup correctly.
5_minutes 9y ago
Right. I only drink coffee anymore for these occasions, put in repetitive music and certain short phased annoying urgent Non coding chores must be done and out of the way, so they don't pollute my mental horizon. It works. Most of the time.
snarf21 9y ago
As another anecdata, the only way I've landed there more intentionally is with the two beer buzz. Working late on a project that is behind and you grab two slices and a six pack. Two beers in (and one every hour) and all of a sudden you just start tearing through code. I've had this happen to me countless times. I think it is because a lot of engineers have a brain that is spinning 1000% all the time and a couple of beers slows it down just enough for it to focus on what you are working on. All the other distractions fall away. I feel exactly the same way when I'm white water kayaking. As you are reading the water and choosing your line and focusing on executing it, everything else in life falls away. You almost can't be distracted. The interesting thing is that at the end of a run, I never feel mentally exhausted despite all the intense focus, only physically drained. Of course, ymmv.
- lionyo 9y ago
  Sounds like the Ballmer Peak: https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/
  - c0ndu17 9y ago
    Beat me to it. ^^
- helm33 9y ago
  >choosing your line and focusing on executing it, everything else in life falls away. For me, this is skiing. Complete focus and attention on the task at hand. Winter, come soon.
  - semi-extrinsic 9y ago
    Amen. When skiing, and I don't have to worry about the kids or newbies tagging along, I can't not be in the zone.
  - mmariani 9y ago
    Oh yeah! Cycling fast gets me there too. It's weird, just put your brain in a position of risk and your get pretty quickly to focus zen. I wish I had a a simple formula like this to get in the zone more often when programming.

hacker_9 9y ago

> Being in the zone is like getting an adrenaline rush Really disagree here, I find it's the total opposite more like a serenity and calmness. I also can get into it easily enough if I sit down with a plan of action and am not just writing code blindly and getting frustrated. If I find I can't enter the 'zone', it's usually because of some distraction (meeting coming up, feeling ill, not happy with the work, noisy open office work environment etc). > if you do it too often you'll quickly drain out and not enjoy it as you used to. Somewhat agree, but I think you mean here that you spend too much time in front of the PC and not enough time tending to your other needs? In which case I definitely agree; I notice a marked increase in productivity if I make sure to exercise routinely in my week, go on social events etc

noir_lord 9y ago
I find been in the zone feels a lot like a less intense version of the feeling I get after a really good nights sleep or after a getting back from a hard bike ride and having a shower, it's just a general feeling of wellness. I also find the zone happens a lot less often doing web dev than it ever did when I did desktop development, the constant scope switches combined with a massive surface means I drop out a lot more often.
- hacker_9 9y ago
  Yeah instant context switching is a real nightmare for the brain, I find it far easier to get up for ~20 minutes after finshing a task and go outside, before returning and getting on with the next task with my now hopefully clear mind.
travmatt 9y ago
That wasn't the comparison to andrenaline though; rather, that both 'zones' are states that you may consciously place yourself into.

ge96 9y ago

Sucks when you have time to work on your project but can't get the flow going... Ahhh need to have someone whip the code out of me.

travmatt 9y ago

"""" The negatives are obvious; less sociable, more easily irritated, wanting to be by yourself. After you've spent a day in the zone, you're not really "party material". """ That hits close to home. Ive thought about this a bunch and it feels as though setting up the mental context of programming, the implicit model I have of how a programs operates and what is happening, is an expensive process. I do wonder what exactly is being depleted in this process - glucose? Neurotransmitters? And whether it'd be possible to supplement this such that I minimize the cost of such operations.