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I don't understand how people manage to be in an office with their boring-ass jobs from 9-5 Monday through Friday till eternity (excluding their measly 2-3 week

I don't understand how people manage to be in an office with their boring-ass jobs from 9-5 Monday through Friday till eternity (excluding their measly 2-3 weeks of vacation). I honestly think most people lack consciousness. For one, it's boring, monotonous, and soul-sucking. Which might be manageable, except with commuting and such you're looking at 9 hours/day wasted, and the bulk of your mental energy drained. Add in cooking, errands, gym, showering, and decompression time, and you have very little productive free time to do anything else. (Most people are ok with this because they have little ambition outside their jobs) Most software engineering jobs are boring and unfulfilling. Very few of us are actually working on groundbreaking, interesting stuff (eg. augmented reality, blockchain), and the harsh reality is that the more interesting the work - the worse the compensation and working conditions tend to be because everyone wants those jobs (see videogame industry). Most of us are doing menial work for for-profit businesses. Developers these days debate endlessly over programming languages and frameworks rather than the actual problems that are being solved because they're all working on the same boring shit. Corporations are the worst because you're literally a cog in the machine and completely replaceable (unless you're a highly valued expert). I prefer startups because at least I feel more valuable, even if at the end of the day I'm still replaceable and my stock options are pathetically low. I hate the authoritarian, hierarchical power structure of companies though. Funny how we claim to value democracy and say "don't tread on me", yet the bulk of our lives are spent working under tyrannical power structures within companies. Software engineering itself has become a commodity, and going forward this is only going to be more and more the case as every college graduate realizing that there are no good jobs in their major start flooding into the industry, driving down compensation and increasing employer demands. The interview process in this industry is downright obnoxious and absurd, and is a reflection of the oversupply of job seekers relative to jobs (contrary to tech industry propaganda, where Google only hires the top 2% based on esoteric algorithms trivia questions and then turns around and claims there's a developer shortage). The whole "butt in seat" 10-5pm obsession is stupid and ridiculous. We're not manual laborers - productive mind work doesn't necessarily follow a 10-5pm schedule. If I can get all my work done by 2pm, why can't I just leave? (Sure there are a few companies that claim to allow that, but in my experience, perceptions tends to matter at these companies more than your actual contribution) It's sad that labor had to fight so hard and literally shed blood for the 40 hour work week that we now take for granted, yet we're now so complacent that we put up with it or don't even realize that we're wage slaves. If there's one thing I'd like to dedicate my life to, it's to ending wage slavery. I see universal basic income as the first step. (Sorry I kind of got carried away in this response)

contingencies 9y ago
You make some good observations and it's true that commuting overheads, US holidays and 9-5 are over the top. Many people here on HN eventually wind up with remote gigs and swear by them. I worked remote for many years too. Right now I am founding my second startup, which being hardware-focused basically requires physical presence. That said, everyone knocks off at 4PM, being foodtech-focused we do lunch together and try to maintain a collaborative environment where people can work on their own stuff but communicate frequently. It helps us all stay on one page and minimizes needless formal project management / messaging / issue-tracking muck. Probably a totally different environment to many startups or larger companies, definitely more creative, and definitely more attractive to people like yourself who reject needless formalism. It's probably largely a response to my own experience. I guess there's always a few companies like ours carrying the torch of (in)sanity: find one, or start one!
antisthenes 9y ago
> The whole "butt in seat" 10-5pm obsession is stupid and ridiculous. We're not manual laborers - productive mind work doesn't necessarily follow a 10-5pm schedule. If I can get all my work done by 2pm, why can't I just leave? This is the most important point that hits home. I've been constantly looking for a job that recognizes this.
- zo1 9y ago
  The problem is that the "lazy" workers sour employers on the notion. So unless your team is filled with motivated, grown-up individuals that won't just use the opportunity to slack-off and do the bare-minimum necessary, then it makes no sense for the employer to try anything but the "butt-in-seat" approach. I manage people a group of about 20, and I'd love to have a hands-off approach. I.e. Letting them be creative and do their own thing at their own pace. But after a week or two of that with me trying to encourage them to experiment, and absolutely nothing happening, it's pretty obvious that they're not inclined. They want to just be butt-in-seat for 9-5, like a factory-worker, then go home. Maybe they're broken already. Or maybe they don't care enough to apply their creativity or motivation during those 9-5 hours to show me that they can do that.

contingencies 9y ago

You make some good observations and it's true that commuting overheads, US holidays and 9-5 are over the top. Many people here on HN eventually wind up with remote gigs and swear by them. I worked remote for many years too. Right now I am founding my second startup, which being hardware-focused basically requires physical presence. That said, everyone knocks off at 4PM, being foodtech-focused we do lunch together and try to maintain a collaborative environment where people can work on their own stuff but communicate frequently. It helps us all stay on one page and minimizes needless formal project management / messaging / issue-tracking muck. Probably a totally different environment to many startups or larger companies, definitely more creative, and definitely more attractive to people like yourself who reject needless formalism. It's probably largely a response to my own experience. I guess there's always a few companies like ours carrying the torch of (in)sanity: find one, or start one!

antisthenes 9y ago

> The whole "butt in seat" 10-5pm obsession is stupid and ridiculous. We're not manual laborers - productive mind work doesn't necessarily follow a 10-5pm schedule. If I can get all my work done by 2pm, why can't I just leave? This is the most important point that hits home. I've been constantly looking for a job that recognizes this.

zo1 9y ago
The problem is that the "lazy" workers sour employers on the notion. So unless your team is filled with motivated, grown-up individuals that won't just use the opportunity to slack-off and do the bare-minimum necessary, then it makes no sense for the employer to try anything but the "butt-in-seat" approach. I manage people a group of about 20, and I'd love to have a hands-off approach. I.e. Letting them be creative and do their own thing at their own pace. But after a week or two of that with me trying to encourage them to experiment, and absolutely nothing happening, it's pretty obvious that they're not inclined. They want to just be butt-in-seat for 9-5, like a factory-worker, then go home. Maybe they're broken already. Or maybe they don't care enough to apply their creativity or motivation during those 9-5 hours to show me that they can do that.