5 ms·

Preact, React alternative without weird Patents License

67 points by wiradikusuma 9y ago

tchaffee 9y ago
If anyone has experience switching from React to Preact I would be interested in hearing what that was like.
- 33degrees 9y ago
  At my work we're currently building out latest project against both React and Preact, and so far have not run into issues with the Preact version. Preact compat makes this easy: https://github.com/developit/preact-compat/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/developit/preact-compat/blob/master/READM...
- lioeters 9y ago
  We've migrated several projects to Preact with no issues at all. The projects depend on numerous React-based modules, including an extensive collection of components, some with state management, routing, data fetching, etc. They work seamlessly, built on either React or Preact. It only takes a small change in the build config, using babel-plugin-module-resolver to alias react and react-dom, to preact-compat.
- FooBarWidget 9y ago
  I switched a small project to Preact. It was fairly straightforward. Most code was compatible. And the code which was not compatible was easily modified.
erokar 9y ago
How does Inferno (https://infernojs.org/ https://infernojs.org/) compare to Preact? Seems to be faster than both React and Preact.
- garkin 9y ago
  I watched both a while ago, things could have changed. Inferno was positioned back then as some kind of a ressearch thing not suited for production. Preact pros was: - very small size (it's near 5kb Non-Gzipped without compatibility layer), perfect for lightweb mobile apps (Inferno was like 60kb, React 250kb) - has less gimmicks for porting from React and an optional compatibility layer to enable some of low-level React libs and components Preact has no synthetic event system wrapping, if you heavily relly on it then things could be rough.
xpaulbettsx 9y ago
Preact, React alternative that almost certainly implements many of React's patents, but without a license to do so. Doesn't sound like a great alternative to me.
- TomMarius 9y ago
  What patents regarding React exist and which of these are held by Facebook?
  - comex 9y ago
    That’s part of the strangeness of this whole debate: nobody knows. The list of Facebook’s patents is public, but I’m not aware of anyone publicly going and doing the research to see which of them, if any, are likely to apply to React. (Possibly because of the whole treble damages thing - along with the fact that Facebook has thousands of patents to look through.) Facebook’s lawyers may or may not have done that research, but it’s in their best interest to keep things as vague as possible (at least up to the point where they actually threaten to sue someone), to avoid workarounds.
    - EduardoBautista 9y ago
      Facebook can sue anyone for patent infringement whether or not they use React. Many people seem to believe that they can't ever be sued by Facebook for any reason as long as they don't use React although that is not the case.
    - underwater 9y ago
      The list of contributors to React, and Facebook patent holders are both public. If someone cared to they could cross reference both and narrow down the search area.
  - koolba 9y ago
    The ones that haven't been finalized by the patent office yet. Do you really think they don't have a pending patent for some part of React? I bet they've got at least one covering virtual DOM. And don't worry about prior art. As long as some part of it can weasel through a patent it's enough. Doesn't have to be the whole thing.
CountdownGraph 9y ago
I'm a technology lawyer. I deal with a fairly high volume of open source licenses and I write a lot of software licenses. I'm also a former developer and still have hobby projects I write mostly in javascript - primarily in Node. I've read the BSD+Patents licenses. What am I missing? It seems like it is designed to reduce the power of patent trolls and to reduce the power of people who use software written by facebook to sue facebook for patent infringement - which, IMHO - is pretty reasonable, especially given that I think it is an absurdity that software is ever granted patents in the first place (something being rectified, albeit slowly, in the post 'Alice' world). So, what am I missing? Are there any other actual lawyers who can weigh in on this? Because I see a lot of FUD on here written by a lot of arm-chair lawyers and, when I go to read the licenses (which I do) I'm just not seeing it. I very much believe in evidence and I am always open to counter-arguments - so please, show me the problematic clauses or the problematic exercise of clauses by Facebook. As of now, all I see is a license (probably written by Goodwin Proctor or Fenwick & West) with a restriction on initiating patent-based litigation - I can live with this. Again - I'm happy to stand corrected. Disclaimer: I'm not your attorney, this is not legal advice, this is not an official legal opinion nor the opinion of my law firm.
- tyingq 9y ago
  See http://www.rosenlaw.com/lj9.htm http://www.rosenlaw.com/lj9.htm particularly the strong patent retaliation clause portion.
  - newscracker 9y ago
    Thanks for that link. It was a concise and good read. I don't like the terminology used for the patent retaliation clauses. I see the "weak patent retaliation clause" as fair (within the scope of patent retaliation) and the "strong patent retaliation clause" as harmful. If I had a say in the matter, I'd like to call a spade a spade and help people understand what these really mean. The terms "weak" and "strong" in this context appear meaningless to me. Without explaining what the clauses mean, the terms themselves don't provide any indication of the (comparative) utility of these.
  - deleted 9y ago

67 points by wiradikusuma 9y ago

tchaffee 9y ago

If anyone has experience switching from React to Preact I would be interested in hearing what that was like.

33degrees 9y ago
At my work we're currently building out latest project against both React and Preact, and so far have not run into issues with the Preact version. Preact compat makes this easy: https://github.com/developit/preact-compat/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/developit/preact-compat/blob/master/READM...
lioeters 9y ago
We've migrated several projects to Preact with no issues at all. The projects depend on numerous React-based modules, including an extensive collection of components, some with state management, routing, data fetching, etc. They work seamlessly, built on either React or Preact. It only takes a small change in the build config, using babel-plugin-module-resolver to alias react and react-dom, to preact-compat.
FooBarWidget 9y ago
I switched a small project to Preact. It was fairly straightforward. Most code was compatible. And the code which was not compatible was easily modified.

erokar 9y ago

How does Inferno (https://infernojs.org/ https://infernojs.org/) compare to Preact? Seems to be faster than both React and Preact.

garkin 9y ago
I watched both a while ago, things could have changed. Inferno was positioned back then as some kind of a ressearch thing not suited for production. Preact pros was: - very small size (it's near 5kb Non-Gzipped without compatibility layer), perfect for lightweb mobile apps (Inferno was like 60kb, React 250kb) - has less gimmicks for porting from React and an optional compatibility layer to enable some of low-level React libs and components Preact has no synthetic event system wrapping, if you heavily relly on it then things could be rough.

xpaulbettsx 9y ago

Preact, React alternative that almost certainly implements many of React's patents, but without a license to do so. Doesn't sound like a great alternative to me.

TomMarius 9y ago
What patents regarding React exist and which of these are held by Facebook?
- comex 9y ago
  That’s part of the strangeness of this whole debate: nobody knows. The list of Facebook’s patents is public, but I’m not aware of anyone publicly going and doing the research to see which of them, if any, are likely to apply to React. (Possibly because of the whole treble damages thing - along with the fact that Facebook has thousands of patents to look through.) Facebook’s lawyers may or may not have done that research, but it’s in their best interest to keep things as vague as possible (at least up to the point where they actually threaten to sue someone), to avoid workarounds.
  - EduardoBautista 9y ago
    Facebook can sue anyone for patent infringement whether or not they use React. Many people seem to believe that they can't ever be sued by Facebook for any reason as long as they don't use React although that is not the case.
  - underwater 9y ago
    The list of contributors to React, and Facebook patent holders are both public. If someone cared to they could cross reference both and narrow down the search area.
- koolba 9y ago
  The ones that haven't been finalized by the patent office yet. Do you really think they don't have a pending patent for some part of React? I bet they've got at least one covering virtual DOM. And don't worry about prior art. As long as some part of it can weasel through a patent it's enough. Doesn't have to be the whole thing.

CountdownGraph 9y ago

I'm a technology lawyer. I deal with a fairly high volume of open source licenses and I write a lot of software licenses. I'm also a former developer and still have hobby projects I write mostly in javascript - primarily in Node. I've read the BSD+Patents licenses. What am I missing? It seems like it is designed to reduce the power of patent trolls and to reduce the power of people who use software written by facebook to sue facebook for patent infringement - which, IMHO - is pretty reasonable, especially given that I think it is an absurdity that software is ever granted patents in the first place (something being rectified, albeit slowly, in the post 'Alice' world). So, what am I missing? Are there any other actual lawyers who can weigh in on this? Because I see a lot of FUD on here written by a lot of arm-chair lawyers and, when I go to read the licenses (which I do) I'm just not seeing it. I very much believe in evidence and I am always open to counter-arguments - so please, show me the problematic clauses or the problematic exercise of clauses by Facebook. As of now, all I see is a license (probably written by Goodwin Proctor or Fenwick & West) with a restriction on initiating patent-based litigation - I can live with this. Again - I'm happy to stand corrected. Disclaimer: I'm not your attorney, this is not legal advice, this is not an official legal opinion nor the opinion of my law firm.

tyingq 9y ago
See http://www.rosenlaw.com/lj9.htm http://www.rosenlaw.com/lj9.htm particularly the strong patent retaliation clause portion.
- newscracker 9y ago
  Thanks for that link. It was a concise and good read. I don't like the terminology used for the patent retaliation clauses. I see the "weak patent retaliation clause" as fair (within the scope of patent retaliation) and the "strong patent retaliation clause" as harmful. If I had a say in the matter, I'd like to call a spade a spade and help people understand what these really mean. The terms "weak" and "strong" in this context appear meaningless to me. Without explaining what the clauses mean, the terms themselves don't provide any indication of the (comparative) utility of these.
- deleted 9y ago