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I've read it, and I'm pretty sure it says that if you initiate a patent lawsuit against Facebook, you lose the license to use React at all. It doesn't revert to

by mcbits 9y ago

I've read it, and I'm pretty sure it says that if you initiate a patent lawsuit against Facebook, you lose the license to use React at all. It doesn't revert to BSD. (EDIT: Apparently that's wrong although the license could certainly be more clear about it.) If React doesn't implement any of their patents, the patent clause offers nothing extra. If it does, it would be damned nice to know which one(s). Do other libraries (other virtual DOMs, perhaps) infringe?

antoncohen 9y ago
No, you lose the patent license, not the copyright license. From Facebook's blog post: > The patent grant says that if you're going to use the software we've released under it, you lose the patent license from us if you sue us for patent infringement. https://code.facebook.com/posts/112130496157735/explaining-react-s-license/ https://code.facebook.com/posts/112130496157735/explaining-r...
- fhrow4484 9y ago
  Which one has more value? A file included in the repo, written in legalese, on which Every single source code file's copyright headers point to (and the README file as well), or an ambigous blog post? Reading the file in its current form (https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/b8ba8c83f318b84e42933f6928f231dc0918f864/PATENTS https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/b8ba8c83f318b84e42933...), You lose the license to make, have made, use, sell, offer to sell, import, and otherwise transfer the [React] Software.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    You lose the license granted in the PATENTS file, but you might not lose the license granted in the LICENSE file. (IANAL, so no idea whether that's true.)
- mcbits 9y ago
  My reading must be off, then. Is "under any Necessary Claims" the magic phrase?
  - antoncohen 9y ago
    Yeah, it is defined at the bottom of the file: > A "Necessary Claim" is a claim of a patent owned by Facebook that is necessarily infringed by the Software standing alone. So when they say "license under any Necessary Claims" they are granting a patent license, the copyright license in the LICENSE file is separate. The FAQ link provided by silentstreet makes it very clear: > Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate? > > No. https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556 https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556
- chrisco255 9y ago
  Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I create a competing product? No. Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I sue Facebook for something other than patent infringement? No. Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if Facebook sues me for patent infringement first, and then I respond with a patent counterclaim against Facebook? No, unless your patent counterclaim is related to Facebook's software licensed under the Facebook BSD+Patents license. Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate? No. From: https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556 https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556
silentstreet 9y ago
https://code.facebook.com/license-faq https://code.facebook.com/license-faq which they published a year or so ago explicitly says you keep the BSD license.
- robocat 9y ago
  "Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate?" "No." Above from bottom of page to be clear to agree!
quickben 9y ago
It's deeper than that. Say you are a company A, and have product P that uses react. You find out that company B infringed on a patent in your other product Q. You sue B. It turns out B is owned by FB. Your product P is in trouble.
- robocat 9y ago
  "If you are OK with using MIT or BSD licensed software you should be OK with using Facebook's BSD + Patents software." (From GP) I.e. patent grant nullifies, and you are left with a BSD only license.
  - slavik81 9y ago
    The main BSD license file says plainly that Facebook grants you the right to use the software. Nowhere does it say that it is merely a grant of copyrights. While the Facebook Additional Grant of Patent Rights purports to be purely additive, its mere existence changes how I would interpret the scope of that main license file. As such, I find the meaning and implications of Facebook's contract to be unclear. I would not want to depend on it, personally. The feeling is a bit like stepping into a restaurant that offers lead-free burgers for only $0.99 extra. Theoretically, declining the upcharge is no different than eating anywhere else. Yet... I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.
- coldtea 9y ago
  Because you can't just rewrite it in another framework if such a totally contrived case arrive?
  - quickben 9y ago
    The way I'm reading some related discussions, it seems their main problem is being suddenly open to patent lawsuit.

by mcbits 9y ago

antoncohen 9y ago

No, you lose the patent license, not the copyright license. From Facebook's blog post: > The patent grant says that if you're going to use the software we've released under it, you lose the patent license from us if you sue us for patent infringement. https://code.facebook.com/posts/112130496157735/explaining-react-s-license/ https://code.facebook.com/posts/112130496157735/explaining-r...

fhrow4484 9y ago
Which one has more value? A file included in the repo, written in legalese, on which Every single source code file's copyright headers point to (and the README file as well), or an ambigous blog post? Reading the file in its current form (https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/b8ba8c83f318b84e42933f6928f231dc0918f864/PATENTS https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/b8ba8c83f318b84e42933...), You lose the license to make, have made, use, sell, offer to sell, import, and otherwise transfer the [React] Software.
- yorwba 9y ago
  You lose the license granted in the PATENTS file, but you might not lose the license granted in the LICENSE file. (IANAL, so no idea whether that's true.)
mcbits 9y ago
My reading must be off, then. Is "under any Necessary Claims" the magic phrase?
- antoncohen 9y ago
  Yeah, it is defined at the bottom of the file: > A "Necessary Claim" is a claim of a patent owned by Facebook that is necessarily infringed by the Software standing alone. So when they say "license under any Necessary Claims" they are granting a patent license, the copyright license in the LICENSE file is separate. The FAQ link provided by silentstreet makes it very clear: > Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate? > > No. https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556 https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556
chrisco255 9y ago
Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I create a competing product? No. Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I sue Facebook for something other than patent infringement? No. Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if Facebook sues me for patent infringement first, and then I respond with a patent counterclaim against Facebook? No, unless your patent counterclaim is related to Facebook's software licensed under the Facebook BSD+Patents license. Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate? No. From: https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556 https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556

silentstreet 9y ago

https://code.facebook.com/license-faq https://code.facebook.com/license-faq which they published a year or so ago explicitly says you keep the BSD license.

robocat 9y ago
"Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate?" "No." Above from bottom of page to be clear to agree!

quickben 9y ago

It's deeper than that. Say you are a company A, and have product P that uses react. You find out that company B infringed on a patent in your other product Q. You sue B. It turns out B is owned by FB. Your product P is in trouble.

robocat 9y ago
"If you are OK with using MIT or BSD licensed software you should be OK with using Facebook's BSD + Patents software." (From GP) I.e. patent grant nullifies, and you are left with a BSD only license.
- slavik81 9y ago
  The main BSD license file says plainly that Facebook grants you the right to use the software. Nowhere does it say that it is merely a grant of copyrights. While the Facebook Additional Grant of Patent Rights purports to be purely additive, its mere existence changes how I would interpret the scope of that main license file. As such, I find the meaning and implications of Facebook's contract to be unclear. I would not want to depend on it, personally. The feeling is a bit like stepping into a restaurant that offers lead-free burgers for only $0.99 extra. Theoretically, declining the upcharge is no different than eating anywhere else. Yet... I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.
coldtea 9y ago
Because you can't just rewrite it in another framework if such a totally contrived case arrive?
- quickben 9y ago
  The way I'm reading some related discussions, it seems their main problem is being suddenly open to patent lawsuit.