4 ms·

> without first re-writing the entire front-end to not use React Do note this isn't necessarily the case, because nobody has yet found a patent that covers Rea

> without first re-writing the entire front-end to not use React Do note this isn't necessarily the case, because nobody has yet found a patent that covers React.

fhrow4484 9y ago
This is what I find confusing, the blog post mentions a patent license that you are granted, but as you say, nobody is aware of any patent covering React. React's doesn't seem to use any novel technique in the field of CS. But https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/b8ba8c83f318b84e42933f6928f231dc0918f864/PATENTS https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/b8ba8c83f318b84e42933... , the way I read it says they grant you a license to to "make, have made, use, sell, offer to sell, import, and otherwise transfer" the React Software. They don't seem to give you a license to any patent.
- fhrow4484 9y ago
  EDIT: "license under any Necessary Claims" seems to mean a license to the patents necessary for React as pointed out by https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15052962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15052962 >> A "Necessary Claim" is a claim of a patent owned by Facebook that is necessarily infringed by the Software standing alone.
sickcodebruh 9y ago
True or not, is this the kind of power a company of Facebook's size should have over others? If something patentable was added to React, would there be a notice sent out? Let's also not forget that this applies to all of their open-source libraries, things like Immutable, GraphQL, Flux, Hack, HHVM, etc,...
kbenson 9y ago
Doesn't that only help if we have a react clone to drop in place? That's not necessarily hard to do without patents, but does it exist? Edit: I think I see what you are saying. It says you lose the patent license, not necessarily the license for the software that doesn't have a patent, so doesn't do anything. Not sure how a judge would decide to interpret it though.
- bpicolo 9y ago
  There are a whole bunch of react API alternatives out there. (Preact, inferno, etcetc)
eridius 9y ago
Facebook's license means you lose the license to React if you sue Facebook for any patents, not just for patents that are related to React. That's the core problem here.
- paxy 9y ago
  Exactly. The "BSD + patents" license applies to _all_ of React, not just the parts of React that use Facebook proprietary technology/patents (and they haven't even identified those parts). I'm never going to use React under this license, but this is still worrying to me because more companies could follow Facebook's lead and start using open-source as a nuclear deterrent against patent legislation.
  - chrisco255 9y ago
    Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I create a competing product? No. Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I sue Facebook for something other than patent infringement? No. Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if Facebook sues me for patent infringement first, and then I respond with a patent counterclaim against Facebook? No, unless your patent counterclaim is related to Facebook's software licensed under the Facebook BSD+Patents license. Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate? No. From: https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556 https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556
    - eridius 9y ago
      Does the additional patent grant in Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if Facebook infringes upon your legitimate patents and you sue them as is right and proper? Yes. Does the additional patent grant in Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if React infringes upon your legitimate patents and you sue another company using React over this? Yes. > Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate? If Facebook has any patents that are related to React, and you lose the grant for those patents, then Facebook can sue you over them if you use React. If Facebook doesn't have any patents that are related to React, then why do they have a patent grant?

> without first re-writing the entire front-end to not use React Do note this isn't necessarily the case, because nobody has yet found a patent that covers React.

fhrow4484 9y ago

This is what I find confusing, the blog post mentions a patent license that you are granted, but as you say, nobody is aware of any patent covering React. React's doesn't seem to use any novel technique in the field of CS. But https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/b8ba8c83f318b84e42933f6928f231dc0918f864/PATENTS https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/b8ba8c83f318b84e42933... , the way I read it says they grant you a license to to "make, have made, use, sell, offer to sell, import, and otherwise transfer" the React Software. They don't seem to give you a license to any patent.

fhrow4484 9y ago
EDIT: "license under any Necessary Claims" seems to mean a license to the patents necessary for React as pointed out by https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15052962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15052962 >> A "Necessary Claim" is a claim of a patent owned by Facebook that is necessarily infringed by the Software standing alone.

sickcodebruh 9y ago

True or not, is this the kind of power a company of Facebook's size should have over others? If something patentable was added to React, would there be a notice sent out? Let's also not forget that this applies to all of their open-source libraries, things like Immutable, GraphQL, Flux, Hack, HHVM, etc,...

kbenson 9y ago

Doesn't that only help if we have a react clone to drop in place? That's not necessarily hard to do without patents, but does it exist? Edit: I think I see what you are saying. It says you lose the patent license, not necessarily the license for the software that doesn't have a patent, so doesn't do anything. Not sure how a judge would decide to interpret it though.

bpicolo 9y ago
There are a whole bunch of react API alternatives out there. (Preact, inferno, etcetc)

eridius 9y ago

Facebook's license means you lose the license to React if you sue Facebook for any patents, not just for patents that are related to React. That's the core problem here.

paxy 9y ago
Exactly. The "BSD + patents" license applies to _all_ of React, not just the parts of React that use Facebook proprietary technology/patents (and they haven't even identified those parts). I'm never going to use React under this license, but this is still worrying to me because more companies could follow Facebook's lead and start using open-source as a nuclear deterrent against patent legislation.
- chrisco255 9y ago
  Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I create a competing product? No. Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I sue Facebook for something other than patent infringement? No. Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if Facebook sues me for patent infringement first, and then I respond with a patent counterclaim against Facebook? No, unless your patent counterclaim is related to Facebook's software licensed under the Facebook BSD+Patents license. Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate? No. From: https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556 https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556
  - eridius 9y ago
    Does the additional patent grant in Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if Facebook infringes upon your legitimate patents and you sue them as is right and proper? Yes. Does the additional patent grant in Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if React infringes upon your legitimate patents and you sue another company using React over this? Yes. > Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license cause the copyright license to also terminate? If Facebook has any patents that are related to React, and you lose the grant for those patents, then Facebook can sue you over them if you use React. If Facebook doesn't have any patents that are related to React, then why do they have a patent grant?